How are all of you staying creative with the looming threat of AI?

[MarcRobinson]

@kirsten-mcg I was particularly grumpy when I wrote that first post ha. Something to do with my toddler forgetting how to sleep for more than 2 hours at a time!

[MarcRobinson]

@danielerossi some good points mate. I guess it's either incorporate new tech into your workflow or go really analogue in response to it. I'm probably the latter.

[davidhohn]

@MarcRobinson I had a discussion with another illustrator who had a similar "I'm going to shift to physical media" response to the AI art issue.

Genuinely curious -- how would this solve the issue for you?

Note: I am 100% in favor of physical media! (also in favor of digital media)

[MarcRobinson]

@davidhohn I've not got much of a plan. I tend to draw my stuff traditionally then paint over in Photoshop. I'm probably going to keep with this as it is important to my style. However if things go the way I fear (digital art becoming a complete noisy landscape of AI mess) I may have to try selling work in a more fine art way. Or if its for books, make a big deal of how I use traditional methods as part of the process? I'm not sure. It's all very confusing.

[kirsten-mcg]

@MarcRobinson haha I know what that's like! No worries. I think it's important to share our raw feelings too. Sometimes it helps just to get it out. I was at my parents house yesterday and broke down and bawled my eyes out while I told them all of this. They didn't have any solutions for me, but it helped just to say it all and not keep it inside.

I've had similar thoughts about traditional media. I've felt myself drawn more to pencil and paper lately. When I post reels on Instagram it's the ones where I'm working in traditional watercolor that tend to get the most views. I think people will always be fascinated/drawn to people who can do art with physical media. It's something computers can't do...at least not yet.

[MarcRobinson]

@kirsten-mcg I've seen your watercolour reels on IG, they're really good! I'm not surprised they get the most traction. My 9 yr old son asks me often "what should I do when I grow up?". How can anyone answer that when who knows what jobs will even be left? Anyway, guess all we can do is keep on keeping on.

[kirsten-mcg]

@MarcRobinson I run into that problem with my kids too. I have a 12 year old son who is so good at drawing already and loves it. I can see him being really happy in a creative career. I just hope that option is left to him by the time he's an adult.

[ajillustrates]

@kirsten-mcg I've experienced the same thing on IG; as AI art is becoming more pervasive, the response to the traditional part of my process has exploded. Anything reels showing literal brush, paint, or ink going onto physical media gets a far bigger response than a completed piece or showing my process steps for a digital piece.

[Kristen Lango]

I really resonate with what @danielerossi said in this thread. When I started drawing again some 3 or 4 years ago, I was fascinated and obsessed with making "perfect" seeming digital artwork.

This journey taught me the tools I need to bring my traditional art into the computer and make a proper digital copy, but it ultimately informed me that I'm not making art for the sake of spending more time in front of a screen.

I know this is an incredibly unpopular opinion (so please don't cast me out from this group that I love so much haha) but I've felt for some time now that art made digitally would get wrapped up in the increasing abilities of technology.

Between color picking, brush smoothing and the thousands of tools to "regulate" your process of drawing and painting, for me, this isn't art making in it's truest form - it's a technician based usage of a software.

Just as I may use ArcGIS from ESRI to make a map today, you may use Photoshop from Adobe to make your painting. However, making a map with this technology doesn't make me a topographer or a cartographer. It makes me a GIS technician.

I believe the world of digital art has been and continues to draw a line between true artists and art technicians.

Ultimately we've traded traditional difficult-to-master skills for ease and efficiency, because we have to produce, produce, produce and then produce some more for those markets to keep that cash flowing.

The ability to recognize what has been happening and why are paramount to understanding your purpose in creating.

Go ahead and shoot me now for these divisive two cents

[danielerossi]

@Kristen-Lango Glad the stuff that pours from my brain resonates I think I get what you mean by using software to create art doesn’t make one an artist. However, I respectfully disagree (while still fully allowing you to remain in the group :)). Or at least take it one step further — by that definition, then Will Terry wouldn’t be classified as an artist. I can’t picture calling him an art technician and not an artist. I am always in awe of the skills he has in creating his own pencil textures but also the beautiful illustrations he creates digitally.

To me computer and traditional tools are just that tools. Some people create mixed media art, others video art. It’s still art. And with that logic, I can draw a map with coffee Will it be an accurate, good map to use? Most likely not because I’m not a cartographer.

Perhaps AI users can be art technicians Or would that be collaborative artists? After all, they are using software to put things (a collage?) together. So maybe you are on the right track after all.

But I’ve really gone off on a tangent now and maybe I’ve also started splitting hairs (or is that “hares” since this is the SVS forum ). Anyhoo, great discussion and my turn to ask for forgiveness and continued membership in this forum

[kirsten-mcg]

@Kristen-Lango and @danielerossi I don't want to cast either of you out of this discussion! I think you've both made some interesting and valid points. I know what Kristen is talking about when it comes to digital art. There comes a point when it doesn't feel much like creation and more like image manipulation, especially when you can trace over reference so easily and re-do and adjust and resize as much as you want. But I, too, would 100% place Will Terry in the "artist" category. Most of what he does takes real artistic skill, not just knowledge of software. And I would guess that if you took away all his digital tools, he could still create phenomenal art. I think things like adjustment layers might lean more toward "technician" though. But for those of us who use digital art in very much the same way we would create traditionally, for me it's still art.

But it will be interesting to see if traditional art makes a comeback in the future. It's something that machines can't do nearly as well as we can...yet. And personally I wouldn't mind if there was more of a demand for traditional art!

[tomparsonsart]

@Kristen-Lango, @kirsten-mcg I feel the same way about Photoshop. I've spent a lot of time trying to make things look polished, or use a bunch of specialty brushes, lots of adjustment layers, masks, and got kind of burned out on it. So now I'm trying to simplify things and limit brushes, limit layers, and treat it like a simple paint surface. Photoshop is so powerful that it's easy to get into trouble, lol.

Anyway, as far as AI art goes, I wouldn't want it dictating my composition, concepts or characters. But I can see a use for it, like a super tailored google image search for reference AFTER you've sketched out ideas and scenes. And only with art that has willfully been added to a database.

I just think it's BS how these tech companies act like it's an inevitable, unstoppable force of nature. And unapologetically just took peoples artwork without consent and are now trying to monetize it. They didn't do that with the music version of AI. Wonder why? Maybe it's because the music industry is organized and litigious? But in contrast, poor artists are scattered to the winds, have no power and they know this.

[ArtistErin]

@tomparsonsart I am wondering, and probably just limited and naive about the industry when I say it's possible they knew it would AI art would need tweaking and are doing the least possible to comply ethically, regarding rights. Companies with deep pockets doing this will have teams of lawyers advising them, regarding copyright laws, stipulations and range of use as mostly grey area, so I imagine there are big payoffs as well as lots of people on both sides of the spectrum rethinking how to stay out of court as much as possible down the line? I imagine many creators are big time buzzing and hoping that Kickstarter really gets someone's attention! Ahem.. Legislation.

Oftentimes things have to go down a windy windy path, before they get better. I have found studying human behavior in history, most civilizations usually undergo massive shifts when any new technology shows up, and it takes much effort to evolve. Lots of good can come of this as well, it's not all dire. I think we'll find a way to learn more, use it for reference, maybe perspective, like how we use Pinterest for example. Anyway, can't imagine this thing, here to stay or not, can remain the wild west. Most people won't stand for it.

There are those however that want things status quo yet it's the expansion of exploring technology lots are interested in, so I appreciate that, I don't want status quo, I see how this is causing many to want a solution. To many this is THEIR solution to their problem. So many ways of looking at this!

I feel over time there will be heavy hitting lawsuits when this leaks over to really deep pockets like Disney. OR Harry Potter Franchise? Does this AI use anything on the internet or IG? How did the music industry escape this or what did they encounter before pirating became illegal?

I have not messed with plugging in a value to see how I can create a composition in seconds; I don't have any interest to go try one out, so am just wondering if any here shares my perspective? Wondering if I'm clueless on the matter?

These are my ramblings here and not based on any fact, I'm just speaking from the heart.

[Chantal Goetheer]

@ArtistErin Im certainly no expert, but I remember the music industry being quite in distress when digital came around as well as publishers. They have found ways with Spotify and drm etc to get earnings and protect their copyright. But there is also plenty of pirating there. They also have a much bigger influence I guess than illustrators have. Because for them the studios and publishers were threatened. Now with ai for publishers it can be a money well, because in the end they are a business and just want to sell. No one can look in the crystal ball to see how it plays out. Maybe illustrators need to walk out on publishers that use ai to the detriment of artists as a protest. But there will be artists embracing it as a tool as well. Raising awareness is very important. People don't realise the world behind illustration and how the AI works. We should have one of those funny ridiculous but also serious videos, like the tea and consent, that makes people wonder about this.

For businesses this should be a part of their CSR. How do we treat AI art? Being a business purely oriented at profit, it looks bleak for us illustrators. But being a company that is strong on CSR they should develop policies in this area.

Are writers also worried and concerned for their future?

My guess is being creative with the multiple income streams will be of even bigger importance. Building a base of followers.
Ai can't do workshops and school visits or any of that (yet). The future is uncertain. My biggest worry, because I don't think I can ever make it as my full time source of income, is: will people unlearn the ability to imagine without any AI/digital input? Will we get less creative with this latest development? What does this do to our creative brain and creative thinking?

But my heart goes out to all that are full of worry about their dreams and future and that are blocked by their worries to create. Don't let AI take away your pleasure of creating. We don't know what the future brings and have never known. Big hug to all!

[danielerossi]

@Chantal-Goetheer and @ArtistErin The music industry (and some bands like Metallica) tried to sue people and Napster, respectively. Not sure about Metallica but I remember that nobody had any sympathy once a music publisher sued a woman because her elementary school aged daughter download a song, dragged her into court, huge fine, etc. (and if I remember correctly, the mother had no idea what they were talking about). Actually, there was no sympathy in general for music publishers to begin with. The introduction of DRM onto CDs just angered people even more. But people and publishers started changing their minds once Apple created iTunes.

In fact, this was the first thing I thought of as soon as I started hearing all this about AI potentially killing art careers. In general, nobody else will care. And as many have speculated, we’ll eventually find a balance. Just like how we now have Apple Music, Spotify, etc. (but keep in mind that artists get little to no pay on these platforms).

@Chantal-Goetheer: You hit the nail on the head. I hope using these AI tools won’t eliminate our skills in coming up with ideas. Jake Parker posted a video some time ago (I think he also mentioned it on the podcast) about how he needed to re-wild his brain from looking at other art on Pinterest, Instagram, etc. He found that he lost the ability to come up with ideas (I’m paraphrasing). So I wouldn’t be surprised if AI kills this too. In fact, I’ve already found myself thinking of using one to flesh out a possible plot for my next book. But I hate the idea. So for right now, I’m with Jake, I need to re-wild my brain from social media and the pandemic.

[ArtistErin]

@Chantal-Goetheer and @danielerossi @kirsten-mcg Yes! Raising awareness, that's big. And just knowing it will play out, as it's in a growing phase is going to develop, and ruffle some feathers, and maybe shift the artistic landscape as we know it, or it could flop. Regardless, I don't let things like this get to me because I understand there is so much that can change, nothing ever stays the same, and with the constant need for art in this world, there are too many moving parts to control the most important aspect of creation; that is being human.

To address the concern over if artists will lose their creative edge, I would say that depends on the individual, how they are inclined to respond to triggers, or if they completely trust their ability to tap into the well of creativity that doesn't rely on technology as its source. I opt for the latter; again referring to a child that isn't bothered with these frivolous details, just give them paper and crayons and the universe is instantly at their fingertips. Creativity, inspiration, the love of an idea popping, these are all native human characteristics that are either encouraged or pinched off, in the moment, and eventually if practiced long enough can become a manifested reality for that person. This understanding of knowing the early stages of choice in how to answer the call of creation can greatly influence whether an artist is inspired or needs to "manufacture" something for the sake of making something happen.

Collectively, I see how businesses that take part in AI as a resource may encounter whatever matches the circumstances that follow, like you said about Spotify, etc. I love that AI can't do workshops, school visits, etc. (yet) and of course we'll cross that bridge when we come to it I suppose? I think culturally our society has been conditioned to be ambivalent, anxious, curious, as it's drummed into our psyche to imagine a dystopian world. Remember the Jetsons and their "instant" food, they'd push a few buttons and Presto! Dinner is served. Synthetic and fake everything- and therefore this "panic" ensues as a triggered reaction, rightly so but sometimes we get so carried with an imagined reality far away from the truth of our existence as humans that we forget what our true power is.

In this abundant world, in all its variety, there are those that thrive and those that do not. So, knowing this, the curious one that I am, I drill closer in and notice the thrivers don't focus on what is wrong with the world. They embrace it, in all it's incredible variety, and stay anchored firmly in their feet, and allow the crazy around them the be what it is without getting pull off course. I'd say knowing I have choice in how I think about these things calms my nerves, as I used to worry, about the state of the world, politics, the future of our children, melting ice caps, I mean the list goes on and on. I'd drive myself nuts, tried shutting out the thoughts, felt powerless against the futility of being one person. Getting into daily debates with others trying to convince them I was right, when I should have just let go. Wayyyyy too much time and energy wasted when all the while the silent observer, waiting patiently for me to listen and just draw. And constantly inspiring.

When contemplating if we'll lose our edge, in this AI landscape, I am reminded of my 4 year old self, imagining how to draw a face with the lashes on the eyes, the iris and how the eye sparkles. I would go to my desk and try to draw what my mind's eye could see, and I was so thrilled with these daily interactions that I realized how natural this inner conversation is. This call wakes me up often to this day, to get up and draw, and so the task for me now is learning how to pace it because I can easily get overwhelmed. Steering the ship... knowing when I've gone far into catastrophe, I just remind myself, my scary thoughts are far worse than what's actually happening. More important is to protect my connection with this inner relationship, nurture a kinder mindset, and encourage the garden to grow so to speak.

I recognize the hunger for deeper insight into life, so many feel like they can't move the needle. How can I help? What can I do in the capacity I am in to help? As an always evolving being I consider myself a work in progress.. Learning how to resonate with others in the world, listen to their needs with the intention to serve and provide a solution artistically, to help others realize their own incredible beauty... not needing to change one thing, rather to inspire. I can't think of anything better than that!

[kirsten-mcg]

@ArtistErin I feel like you've been the calming voice in all of this! Thanks, as always for your reminder to just keep creating the things that bring us joy and not spend too much time trying to speculate on where the world is going to end up.

@Chantal-Goetheer I've wondered the same thing. It will be interesting to see if AI art will end up stagnating eventually because its not fostering any human creativity. I don't ever see myself getting a lot of joy out of using it. For me, at least, it doesn't satisfy my need to create.

[ArtistErin]

@kirsten-mcg You're welcome! Sometimes writing out my thoughts helps me learn and communicate better, the long posts are evidence of my years of accumulation in my head. Thank you for being there and listening!!

[Nyrryl Cadiz]

@MarcRobinson i think u might just be right about this

[carolinebautista]

Hi everyone. I haven't been on here for a long time, but am just getting back into painting. This is such an interesting discussion and although I'm working my way through it, I wanted to post this article from the Washington Post I found today, where the same problem is happening to programmers with Copilot. There is a lawsuit about copyright issues over what feeds into the AI source material. Perhaps if the lawsuit protects programmers, it will help protect artists as well.

https://wapo.st/3G4jXzK

(this link is a gift from my subscription so please let me know if you cannot access the article)