Episode 13: The Caldecott

[NessIllustration]

There's a lot of research an studies that have been done that have found a bias in how people review men and women's work. Even if it's supposed to be objective, when the gender of the person is known it is found that both men and women will judge women more severely than men. When the gender is unknown, they will sing the praise of women's work... More troubling still, when judges are aware of this bias they tend to judge women even more harshly, perhaps out of fear of favoring women (which is to me the most astonishing thing about this, considering no one's ever been fearful of favoring men, ever!). This whole thing is subconscious and affects both men and women, so I feel like it's showing the effects of small casual sexism in our society that doesn't seem like a big deal but gets added up and gets internalized in all of us. It's a tricky and insidious thing to fight. As @smceccarelli has said, I don't feel like changing society is my fight - I just have to work harder and make better art, so one day no one can deny its value!

[Eli]

@nessillustration Ugh. So disheartening!

[NessIllustration]

@eli It is a little bit, especially when considering that children illustration is already such a difficult field, there's already a million things we have to think about and develop (skill, style, network, marketing, portfolio, social media, etc etc) and to think that to top it all off, there's this bias against us. It can be disheartening to think about, but we can choose to think of it as "Well there's nothing much we can do about that, so let's just forget about that and focus on what we CAN work on"

[Eli]

@nessillustration Yes, absolutely! It is really troubling to learn the extent that women judge other women harshly, subconscious or not. At least being armed with that knowledge, maybe we can examine our reactions for this bias. Also, support the endeavors of other women, in the arts and elsewhere.

[Samu]

@nessillustration Time ago in auditions for orchestras, women were rejected systematically because the judges believed that women didn't have the sensibility to play an instrument at is best. They have to start making blind auditions were the solicitant was playing behind a curtain and everything changed.

[NessIllustration]

@zombie-rhythm I didn't know about that! I'm not surprised, though. It was like this in every industry! In animation, women did the inking and painting the cells, but they were considered not creative enough for the design or animation work. It's a massive step forward that now we're not rejected on sight, but the subtle bias now that women are judged more strictly than men is still a thing and it's even harder to fight in a way because it's insidious, internalized. These judges aren't bad people and they don't go in thinking "I'll ruin the chances of any woman that applies to this contest." It's subconscious. How do you change that?

[davidhohn]

@rcartwright Are you aware of the Marilyn Baillie Picture Book Award? Winner receives $20,000.

http://bookcentre.ca/programs/awards/marilyn-baillie-picture-book-award

And given the discussion of gender bias elsewhere in this thread, as I look further into that award, from 2006 - 2017 it has been awarded to women illustrators 8 out of the 11 years.
(Oh Canada, how is it are you so much better than the rest of the world?)

[davidhohn]

This discussion has made me curious about gender bias in children's literature. I've spent a bit more time investigating other awards and not simply focusing on the Caldecott.

If you look at the Newberry award winners from 2001 - 2015 it was awarded to women writers 10 times, and male writers 5 times.

https://nicolagriffith.com/2015/05/26/books-about-women-tend-not-to-win-awards/

If you look at the SCBWI Golden Kite award for picture book illustration 1996 - 2016 it was awarded to male illustrators 10 times and female illustrators 12 times (math doesn't quite add up because I recorded one year when husband and wife Dennis Nolan and Lauren Mills won for co-illustrating)

https://www.scbwi.org/awards/golden-kite-award/125854-2/

I write this mostly to add additional data points to the discussion about gender bias. I'd be interested to hear what others think of this data.

[NessIllustration]

@davidhohn Interesting... It suggests the Caldecott specifically shows this bias, whereas other awards don't! I wonder why that is!

[smceccarelli]

@davidhohn I cannot say I have thoroughly investigated the matter but it is certainly a topic I've been involved with extensively when I was in science. In my department there were 6 women vs 81 men and there was a constant push to shift the ratio.
Which was really difficult, because I was also involved in recruiting and we had the same ratio in job applicants (about 5-7 men for every woman who applied for a researcher role). Why was that? There is a majority of women in biology studies (about 80%) and about 50:50 in chemistry. Were did all these graduates go? Well, that was easy to know: when you exit graduate studies at 28 (which is the rather standard age for advanced science careers), your first thought is having a family, not starting a career in research. And after that, the train has normally left: if you're out of science for more than two years, you're out (I, for one, could never go back). I started my family at 34, when my career was established - but that came at a huge cost, and I'm not surprised that not many choose that path.

The tension between family care and job/achievements runs deeply throughout history: many of the women who accomplished great deeds in different fields never had children. To me, this is the biggest elephant in the room whenever we talk about gender parity.

There are some books that point to other deeper factors beyond discrimination.
"Listening to Prozac" by Peter D. Kramer, points to the fact that until about 100 years ago, the ideal of woman was that of a shy, homely person, content of staying at home and certainly never seeking recognition. It is only since the end of second World War that women have taken a more prominent role and are encouraged to seek "fame and success" outside of the home...that's not a long time to revert a couple of millennia of engrained gender roles.
"Sapiens" by Yuval Noah Harari points to the fact that more than 99% of human societies throughout history have been patriarchal. He doesn't give an explanation of why that should be, but it is a pretty striking homogeneity.

There is also pretty substantial research about fundamental differences in the way men and women perceive the world. One aspect that I believe is relevant to illustration is that men have a much stronger perception of the 3D space (this is not discrimination: it's neural science at it has been demonstrated beyond doubt. It's probably a result of hunting behaviors). Drawing volumes definitely didn't come naturally to me! I do believe that women have to work twice as hard to get solid construction in their drawing than men do - but this is only my opinion, I don't have anything solid to support that with relation to illustration .

By all means, I think women and men should be handled equally in all respects and we should aspire to a proportional representation in all prestige positions and awards. But I don't believe that the juries of these awards willingly favor men, as I know that when we hired researchers we did not favor men: quite the contrary!

[SarahLuAnn]

Lots of great facts and thoughts here... exactly the kind if discussion I was hoping would emerge. There is always the fear when bringing up certain topics on the internet that people will start calling names and taking things out of context, etc. but I was pretty sure we could keep it civil here on the forums... I’m glad I was right

And yes, I am acutely aware of how having children effects ones career... I produce work at a snails pace because the majority of my time is occupied with two very small children. (I DO produce work though... that’s something, right??)

I hear milenniels are more interested in equal share of work both in the home and supporting the family financially—that would certainly be the ideal for my husband and I, but we aren’t there yet. Over time more businesses may accommodate that kind of work but most don’t yet. So really, it may just be a matter of time.

[MissMushy]

In my management consulting work with non-profits here in Canada, there has been research that shows the majority of front-line workers and middle management are women especially in the 'caring professions' - nursing social work, counselors, etc. (80/90% F ) But as soon as you hit the most senior level management positions and/or more 'prestigious' organizations, there is a complete shift in gender profile - Almost 90% male executives and of course the difference in pay scale is cray cray.
I have seen this play out in so many organizations - even with the most open minded inclusive recruiting policies on the books There is a definitely societal bias supporting the belief that men will perform better at an elite level.
I wonder if that might be one of the dynamics at play in the Caldecott, Nobel etc. - the more prestigious the award is perceived, the more bias towards awarding it to men. Of course, the path is tough enough without these unspoken barriers and no doubt many women might decide it ain't worth the aggro.
Great discussion!

[smceccarelli]

@missmushy I don’t know if that relates to your point or not, but when I was at the top of my scientific career, I turned down two offers for senior leadership positions. The kind of job commitment and work hours connected to that kind of position would have meant that I would see my family even less than I already did (which was already little enough). I cannot exclude that one of the reasons I left science was to get out of that kind of pressure and expectations and give my children more of my time.
We have a 50/50 split in childcare and all home duties with my wonderful husband: it´s not a logistic problem. I just believe that women in general feel the pull of spending time with their children much more than men do....
My experience always makes me wonder whether the lack of women in leadership position is because there is a bias or simply because they don’t want to go there...

As for the Caldecott, I really don’t know what the dynamic at work is here. One would assume that, given the large number of women in children publishing, they would receive a proportional or at least equal share of submissions (this would have to be investigated: maybe it´s the publishers who have a bias). Are there more children books by men or by women out there? Looking at my shelf it looks like there are way more men, especially author/illustrators (which comes as a surprise to me, I didn’t expect that!). But maybe that´s my taste. Or maybe books illustrated by men are overall more successful. Does anybody have data about that?

[Samu]

@nessillustration You don't try to change it. You use it to make yourselves stronger, then you bright so powerful than you change things everywhere around you without trying

[rcartwright]

@davidhohn Thanks for the info I didn't know about that award

[LauraA]

Another great episode! I particularly took note of the part about graphic design as a consideration.

My teachers introduced me to Caldecott books early in life, and I had a librarian relative who had a collection of Caldecotts and other great books in her home and later became very involved in the ALA. I'm pretty sure she has something to do with my interest in illustration to this day--Not to mention that when I attended her middle school, she worked out a deal with the gym teacher so that I could skip volleyball to draw book cover posters!

P.S. @Lee-White Can't never could!!! I haven't heard that in years! Welcome back to the South.

[Jonas Zavacky]

This was very interesting to listen to! I am not sure if somebody else talked about it, but I am curious if the Caldecott award is only for books from U.S or if it is global award

[LauraA]

@jonas-zavacky The Caldecott is only for US books, but the NYTimes Best Illustrated Books Award, which is gaining traction, is for books from any country. Those are the main US children's book awards I know about, but there are also others for other countries.

[davidhohn]

@lauraa @Jonas-Zavacky There are other prestigious awards for illustration in other countries. Look earlier in this thread for my initial list. And please add in any that you are aware of. (Maybe this would be a good topic for it's own thread?)

[LauraA]

@davidhohn I know there is the Andersen here in Italy and there is the Greenaway for illustration in the UK. The Andersen has various categories, as I understand it, that cover both writing and illustration, various age groups, comics, wordless picture books, and even a digital prize (not sure where the digital part comes in, but I think maybe it's for ebooks). And it seems that authors from other countries are considered, though perhaps for books translated into Italian.

Here's a link to this year's winners: http://www.andersen.it/premio-andersen-2018-i-vincitori/

If you want to make another thread about it, feel free to copy and post this!