Help! How much should I qoute a client?
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@Lee-White I appreciate and agree with your comments. They are helpful and encouraging. And I hope this discussion doesnt feel like an argument.
I started out with no degree, no experience and no portfolio, lol - just hustle. Until 8 months or so ago all my work has been graphic design and no illustration.
To further clarify I don't track my hours and bill clients on an hourly basis. I estimate my time based on previous experience and the reqs and use my rate to quote jobs on a project basis but I've gotten wiser about paying attention to usage. I began to realize that if I designed a poster for a set price that someone prints tons of copies of for sale that I lost out.
I've gotten better at estimating my time and have steadily been increasing my rates. They've more than tripled in two years as I've gained experience and confidence and gotten client referrals. And I use the handbook to see where I'm tracking in the range of prices.
Admittedly I err on the side of working rather than losing out on price if it's a big job like this and a client I want. But I also am beginning to turn down more jobs with budgets that are too small.
I also do retainers and freelance for local print shops which I really needed to have a hard and fast hourly rate.
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@Amber-Lynn-Benton I hope this doesn't sound like an argument either! Somehow things can look like that online which is so weird. : )
We need to be having these discussions because it's the only time anyone talks about them. All this stuff is normal for other industries, but not ours. Which keeps us all in the dark unless we mention it and speak open and honestly about it.
Glad to hear you are working and it sounds like you are doing quite well! Yay for turning down small budgets! : )
SVS Faculty Instructor
www.leewhiteillustration.com -
@Lee-White @Amber-Lynn-Benton your discussion has been really helpful and I for one have learnt something from it! I always used to charge by the hour but recently I've been trying to price based on the overall project and it's usage like you say.
The one thing I do find tricky is how do you even start coming up with a price for the usage of your illustration - e.g you're asked to produce an illustration for a company's ad campaign online or something, and they say they might use it in the future on posters etc.
Do you both have a system or way of working out how much you charge in this case? And also, if the client is only saying they MIGHT use it for more in the future, do you still charge them the same rate to compensate if they do use it?Sorry lots of rambling there haha, this is always the part of working freelance that scares me as I've never been good at valuing myself as an artist properly!
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@Lee-White It’s a good discussion! Would you expand upon what you said when you say overhead should be considered but not included in an hourly rates? I certainly do have overhead and expenses and I know what they are. I don’t run my business out of my personal checking and I make nothing other than a portion of what I bill right now -I do have a few very small royalty checks beginning to come in but they are nominal. If I don’t cover what I would like to be paid and my (‘overhead’ which I also account for taxes with) into my billing how else would I do It?
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Hi, everyone! So I already sent a qoute to the client. Fingers crossed everything goes well.
Thank you so much to everyone who gave their advice @Lee-White @Amber-Lynn-Benton @Chip-Valecek @davidhohn. I would also like to thank @KathrynAdebayo for starting the student interviews in the first place. Again, thank you so much!
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@Amber-Lynn-Benton Sure, what I mean by that is that you SHOULD know what your overhead is (both business and personal), but that shouldn't change the amount you charge a client.
What you charge a charge a client is based on usage/rights/and size of the company, etc. What you need to make for your business and your personal expenses does not change the amount that a client will be charged.
BUT, how much you spend on business/personal expenses DOES need to be measured against that income so you know if you are making a profit or not. If you are not making a profit and your rates are up to date with what what is fair for those projects, then you need to re-evaluate the business. Perhaps you are slightly undercharging? But if not, it means either trying to get more work or get higher paying clients and/or lowering your costs so you have more profit.
Hope that makes sense. Let me know if I can answer any more questions.
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Here's another example to help illustrate my point. In this example, illustrator A has higher expenses than illustrator B. BUT, the job is still worth $750. The income amount doesn't change due to your expense needs, but the FREQUENCY of being hired would need to change to cover the costs that illustrator A has.
One other thing to note: a small difference in the frequency you need to be hired adds up to a LOT over time. Illustrator A needs 24 more jobs per year than illustrator B!
SVS Faculty Instructor
www.leewhiteillustration.com -
@hannahmccaffery One way to think about it is you are selling them the rights to use your artwork - in this case on posters - your not selling your artwork. This allows you to reuse content - like a character you might come up with or it allows you to create derivative work in the future. In this case if I priced this as a per poster price that price would only be good for posters only - and even a limited quantity or for a limited time - say 2 or 3 years and I retain the copyright. At that time the rights revert completely back to me or we re-negotiate.
If it is a situation in which they are providing copious reference/materials and or they want to completely own the artwork it's a different conversation.
And it's also different if it's totally your work or derived from your existing work or unique style and they want to buy all rights of it forever and you can never use part of it again or make derivative work.
That guild handbook which we're referring to so often is helpful. Those price ranges $500-7000 for instance is a big range. 'And it's because it's a sliding scale - how much flexibility/ownership do customers want with artwork and how in demand are you as an illustrator. The goal is to retain as many rights for as much compensation as possible.
The more you can charge in the beginning of your career the better off you will be - so definitely give more experienced illustrators like @Lee-White wisdom more weight than mine. As I said in a previous post I've been earning an income from my work for about two years. I started out with nothing and did my first projects for free or very little. (We're talking graphic design/logos, packaging, etc.) I didn't have a community and I pretty much learned everything online - Lynda.com and Aaron Draplin's Skillshare classes. This year I am on track to break 15K for the first time - I hope by quite a bit. And I've done a lot of logo work - mostly for small Mom & Pops - which is why I've never found a $15K logo job. It sounds like so little when I write it out and think about all the work. But I also only work part time - I homeschool my kids and work in the fringe hours. It's been a long slow climb but my skills have gotten better and my income is growing. And that extra $1K a month means a lot to our household budget.
One of my problems until recently was confidence in my work since I didn't have a degree or any previous experience. Last year I began going to some local events hosted by my AIGA and my work (graphic design work) was respected by local designer and agencies I looked up to. I worked on a team for Make A Mark this year and our project was nominated for an AIGA award. Those events have brought me more connections locally and more work.
But that confidence is beginning to make me bolder in pursuing illustration rather than just graphic work. :smiling_face_with_open_mouth_cold_sweat: Now I'm working a ton trying to grow my illustration & drawing skills and get a small portfolio that I'm proud of together - that's why I'm here in this space!
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@Lee-White Thanks - that's clearer. My jobs thus far have not be quite so clear cut - their more of a crazy quilt than a patchwork. But I'm working hard on my portfolio to move more in this direction with illustration. I don't know if there is a way to bookmark a thread on this forum but I'm going to save this one somehow.
I do appreciate your time!
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@Lee-White 's point about charging based on usage reminded me of an article I just read on the Yahoo yodeler: https://thehustle.co/the-yodeler-who-sued-yahoo/
Setting a precedent of charging based on usage literally made a multi-million dollar difference for this guy.
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This is such an important conversation! Thanks for discussing it here where we all can see.
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@nyrrylcadiz I have been going through @Lee-White ’s How To Make Money in Illustration series after reading his responses here. If you haven’t watched those I highly recommend them. You won’t get to a quick answer for questions like this but if you go through the series doing the homework I think pricing will be less intimidating because you will have so many other things in place already. He covers usage in that class but it’s also covered for a different market in the Art Licensing class.
