A little disturbed
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Ultimately does it really matter? Its just a bit of fun. Everyone has the opportunity to use this forum to get a ton of feedback, so who really cares who wins the contest? The judges give their opinions, take 'em or leave 'em.
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Hi @gavpartridge, it is definitely fun for me! Personally, I enjoy the voting format! This discussion is certainly interesting too in hearing other’s perspectives. Appreciate everyone’s input.
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@gavpartridge You mentioned the contests are just fun and it doesn’t really matter. The only reason it does matter is that we are paying participants. There is no one being considered in the judging who is not a paying subscriber. Compared to previous contests, the value is diminished without the critique. It seems to be the general rub from those who responded here that the in-depth teaching via critique is the key missing component. I fully agree that the contests are a blast! I love seeing everyone’s take on the topics and working within a deadline toward a portfolio worthy piece of my own.
Most people (including me) love a lighthearted approach and jokes and fun. Consistency, clarity, and teaching just need a little tightening up especially when the subscriber numbers are higher. I am not leaving or “taking my crayons and going home” as I stated before. I am certainly not trying to spread negativity. I am only making theses statements as I have to consider value and $$ as I am making my choices. SVS is a blast. But I did not join just to have fun. I joined because I am serious about the stated purpose. I want to be better smash those goals to be a working illustrator.
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@JennyJones Respect!. Thank you for your insight and positivity. I enjoy the the jokes and fun we all have in the live critique and format. This post is simply to voice my frustration in the aspect of confusion with the judging. It isn’t intended to be negative or target anything positive or negative about SVS or it’s owners.
I too am vigorous in my approach to get to where i don’t even know where I can be and hopefully have fun along the way. I am currently frustrated in confusion how the judges approach these pieces. I am learning through the judges and this thread that it really comes down to what they like first and foremost. If it is this way, though I may be a little depleted, i can progress and manage my frustration in knowing that this is how it is.
A gain thank you for your post. Much love. ONE!
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@carlianne Much Respect! Thank you for your inspiration. You have answered a question that I didn’t even know I was asking. Connecting the dots I see the points of interest being content and technical skill. I would also like to add, after Will confirming it, “judges bias.” What they are simply liking adds to the mix.
So maybe the hope for me now is that there is a healthy balance between the three.
As for Isolation and determining what is positive or negative. I have my own belief that i think it could be both. The covid isolation may have been negative for individuals but ultimately, arguably, for human kind. If a character makes a negative situation positive and we are seeing that are they no longer isolated? - With all love
Regardless on my beliefs on isolation. The conditions changed from prompt - to lee- to will and hey i can take it on the chin, It just seemed as if that standard push some out while it was neglected for others. Please understand i watched and love everything submitted. So this is not directed to anyone artwork.
Thank you again for your patience and for your time. With much love. ONE!
Much love and God bless!
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@gavpartridge RESPECT1 Thanks for your insight. The focus of this thread isn’t to question the fun or the winners, but the miscommunication of this months prompt and to better understand if there is a technical perspective to the judges critiques, a personal perspective, or a mixture of both.
Thank you for your response. Much Love. ONE!
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@JennyJones I don't know about you, but these questions do really matter (so thank you @dafoota for starting this discussion) because I need to be smart about how I spend my time. My entry can be anything I need it to be - an svs class assignment, a portfolio piece, a personal piece - but that insurance that I'm learning with my time by making the prompt a secondary thing might just guarantee I never win. So I completely see what you're saying about not
entering.Every contest entry takes time and sometimes it's not a good fit. It really might not be for me.
Maybe you can post your isolation entry into the featured student thread.
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@carolinebautista Wow. I’m out on a limb but your reasoning/discernment seems top tiered!
I thought about posting for students to give feedback, but it just seems like more of hassle. Here are my thoughts. I would have to discern through feedbacks that are helpful, some that are of topic, and some being bias heavy. I also know because this community is so positive I suspect that it would be difficult to actually get strong constructive criticism.
I have not went this route and I’ll heavily consider it. With no disrespect to the wise students I’ma go to the source first type of person.
With much love and respect. ONE!
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@dafoota I agree it can be positive, and also that what that word means is probably different for each individual, and so I understand the feeling of bait and switch.
What I was trying to say though is the definition of Isolation itself notes that is generally negative. From Webster dictionary:. "ISOLATION stresses detachment from others often involuntarily." So when we think of the word the first feeling you get with that is a negative one.
Now Lee was pointing out like you said, that it can be positive and that's totally valid. But I think what Will was trying to say, was if you put a person alone in a space. If the feeling matches "isolated" with more of a somber mood or feeling. Then it can work. But if it's happy which doesn't immediately read as isolation (but more relaxed or alone) then you'll need to do more to show the disconnect of that person from others. Like Braden's for example.
It doesn't mean that you or others were wrong for showing happy or anything. Just that when he looked at it, as an outside observer, it didn't immediately read as isolated to him. And you're right that this can vary from person to person, but that is also part of why it's really important to share your work with others and ask what they see and get feedback.
And also, he was critiqing these at a lightning pace, and gave his gut reaction. With more time they might have been more consistent or said something else.
Hope that helps
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@JennyJones fair enough.
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Hey, wow! I go on vacation for a week and then all this pops up! You guys keep me on my toes! : )
This month was a little bit unique in that it was my topic, but I happen to be out of town for the judging. I saw the top 16 before I left and loved them! But it was absolutely possible for Will to have a different take than I would have. That is just how it worked out this time and I do understand the confusion.
Ultimately though, I still want to stress that the contests main goal is NOT to get in the top 16, the top 8, the top 4, or even to win. The main point is for you to get a portfolio piece out of it that fits exactly where you are going in your career. For example, if someone was going to be a concept designer and work mainly on characters, they could submit a great character sheet with turnarounds and expressions. Would that win? Nope, probably not. But that would be what that person needs. I do not want you trying to cater to the judges because that would defeat the purpose of this. The purpose is to move YOU forward in YOUR career. That is why we don't clarify too much when giving these prompts. Too much information and it would start to look like we were art directing the contest.
I understand that winning feels great too so ideally you would get a portfolio piece AND win too! But that should never be the goal. Keep entering your best and keep on painting!
Let me know if you have any questions at all. I'd be happy to answer them.
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@Lee-White Would you guys accept an animation, like the animated gifs they sometimes have for editorial illustrations? The reason I ask is because technically, it is more than one image. It wouldn't work for many of the prompts, but i'm hoping to try it eventually, especially for the simpler prompts.
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@carolinebautista Sure! I'd love to see that!
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I'm a little late to this thread but just wanted to say that I also have struggled with my own attitudes toward the contest, realizing that I have often invested too much of my self-worth based on whether my piece makes the cut. It actually helps me to see pieces that I love not make the cut or get trounced in the polling because it reminds me that there is always subjectivity in contests, and if pieces I love don't get chosen then maybe the fact that my piece didn't get chosen isn't a reflection on my artistic abilities. (It could be, but at least there gives me room to hope!)
I did want to add, however, that as much as I think the polling portion of the contest can be brutal, I was one of those who supported the polling approach because I thought it might help balance the fact that all of the SVS judges are white males. There is a great diversity of nationality and gender in those watching and it's nice that those voices will have some impact on the outcome. It would be great to have more diversity in the SVS teaching and leadership but I know SVS is trying to do that and has added some new teachers that reflect that goal, and allowing the SVS membership to have a voice in the contests helps as well.
Laurie DeMott
instagram.com/demotlj -
One thing that everyone should also know is that no matter what direction we take the contests, it will make some of you happy and some unhappy. I've come to accept that because there is no way to make it perfect for everyone.
When the contest was the draw over version, some people felt we spent too much time one or two entries so we didn't get to see enough entries. Or they feel we worked on the wrong one. When it was a straight contest and I was picking the winners, people felt I chose the wrong one and others should have made it that didn't.
What I love about this version is everyone gets a voice and i really feel that the voting works really well. I think it shows pretty well how an art director must feel when picking an illustrator for a project. Contest winners (or job winners) are often chosen for arbitrary reasons and there is no concrete "why" as to how one person got the win over someone else. Especially when the images are SO close in quality. Many times it simply boils down to an art director saying "i just like this one more". You guys get to experience that when you vote. It's tough and sad because you have to chose knowing that the one you didn't pick actually belongs to someone you might know from the forums. Every vote makes someone happy and someone else sad. it's just the nature of our business. But the good part is as you get used to entering and the feeling from entering and not being selected, or losing in the round of 16, it gets easier. You get less attached to the outcome and just say 'I'm going to enter no matter what'. Try your best and let it go. After you upload your image, the rest is out of your control. So just get back to the drawing board and make more images. As Peter Brown stated yesterday in the jump session, it really is about showing up and having lot's of ideas, making lots of images, having lots of failures, and then watching a few of them succeed. It makes it all worth while. : )
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@demotlj I'm relatively new to the forum and the contests; for me the contests are all about motivating myself to make and publish something that I wouldn't have otherwise. As events I enjoy the contests for the live commentary and the chance to see a whole lot of work in a short period of time, but I think the more meaningful learning experiences on the SVS platform are in the courses, podcasts and guest artist events. Which leads me to echo your words - YES PLEASE to more diversity in SVS teaching and leadership!
http://luckyplatt.com/
@imluckyplatt -
@Lucky-Platt @demotlj We hear you loud and clear and totally agree! We are working on a number of things to address this (and have been for the past few years!). The more diversity the better!
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