How To Deal With Fear Of Success

[Randi Gordon]

I enjoyed the podcast, but I’m a little disappointed in the amount of time given to what was in the title. I came away feeling like it wasn’t even addressed. Did I miss something?

I’m noticing that the description of the show specifically talks about fear of success after being approached by a publisher. I’d love to hear more from you three about that, as I’ve experienced it firsthand and still don’t know what made me sabotage myself.

Several years ago I sent a dummy out and landed an interview at [Big Important Publishers], who loved my story and style. All I had to do was finish the manuscript. Oh, and they wanted to ramp up the colors, which I was certainly willing to do. Somehow I convinced myself it wasn’t worth doing and my writing froze up completely, and I ended up taking a job at an art supply store because my parents were tired of supporting me and out of patience. Not sure why they thought spending a fortune on art school and then not helping me survive while I found my footing made any sense, but it is what it is.

The fact that my folks didn’t seem particularly excited when I told them I’d gotten callbacks from real, actual bigshot publishers who wanted to publish my book kind of messed with my mind at the time. I’ve had a lot of therapy since then, LOL, so hopefully I’m better prepared now.

I’d love to get ahead of the self-sabotage issue before it rears its ugly head again (I am currently preparing a dummy to send out) and am wondering how to stop destructive impulses before they start. Maybe too “big” of a topic for a forum, but I trust you guys and figured I’d ask.

[davidhohn]

@RachelArmington said in How To Deal With Fear Of Success:

Not familiar with Denril, but a quick search suggest that it's a translucent paper of some kind?
That makes perfect sense! Quick easy way to add a credit line/contact info to physical media images.

And I'm reminded of how I developed this credit line/promotion position in the first place:

Years ago I was a newbie illustrator making work and putting it out on the internet.
Online websites had replaced physical portfolios as the way to contact AD's. And you didn't put your name on every image in a physical portfolio! So I didn't put it on every image on my website.

One illustration I created was my interpretation of "The Little Dutch Boy" tale. I created the image posted it to my website and . . . promptly forgot about it.
On to new and better things!

Well, about 10 years later I get an e-mail from a company that wants to relicense the image for a promotional brochure campaign. They had a budget of $5K.
Needless to say I was more than happy to do the deal and license the image for this use!

But -- this was just a self promotional image that I had only ever posted to my website.
My old website.
A website that was no longer even up. (having been replaced multiple times over)
But the domain name was still the same!

I asked the client how they found me. The client sent me the jpeg they had on file.
It was a horribly tiny little image that had clearly been wandering the net from some time.

But some beautiful, wonderful, gracious person had blatantly plastered a white box in the lower left corner with the word "www.davidhohn.com" in Times New Roman bold black type.
Graphically hideous.
Financially beautiful.
And from then on I've included the line "davidhohn.com" on every image I post to the web.

[kylebeaudette]

@davidhohn

Well, I disagree.

I dont think it's a mistake to not include your name on every (or most) of the images you put online. I'm posting my stuff on Instagram or Twitter, and when art directors see it/like it/comment on it they can clearly see I made it by clicking my profile. I think my work is more shareable because it is a clean image of a character (or whatever) with no signature. Art feels... different when it's signed for that purpose. You feel the artist grasping to retain 'rights' or whatever. I don't know, it just really think it takes away from the feel of the piece. Not to everyone, but certainly to me. Those shares I get on those platforms are worth more to me than someone finding it on Pinterest or Google images and wondering who I am.

Will I lose out in the scenarios you describe? Yes.
Will I gain on the scenarios I'm describing? Yes.

So I wouldn't call it a 'mistake', but maybe more like a choice.

[davidhohn]

@kylebeaudette
That's cool. You do you!
The great thing about this career is that there isn't one way to do it.

My goal in this thread is to bring up points of view that aren't being discussed fully on the podcast.

Thanks for participating!

[danielerossi]

@mag I tend to enjoy listening to banter on podcasts and for some reason, I was on the edge of my seat listening to the burger discussion.

[mag]

@danielerossi Exactly! And that's why the 3 point perspective podcast is the best podcast ever! You learn something about art, dogs, slides, burgers, everything!

[geekinm]

How to deal with fear of success? Listen to the Creative Rebels Podcast episode "Believe in your f***ing Self with Jamali Maddix. As the title suggests there is a little (a lot) of swearing in this episode so don't listen to it with kids around. That said this particular episode is always what I listen to when I need a bit of a pep talk. https://www.globalplayer.com/podcasts/episodes/7DrbVKu/

[RachelArmington]

@Randi-Gordon I’m a few months behind in my podcast-listening, so I haven’t listened to this particular episode yet. But…

You’ve probably heard about imposter syndrome (which can lead people to self-sabotage) as there has been so much discussion about it the last few years.

Specific to what you’ve written though: Have you ever revisited the dummy you submitted to the publisher? Were you comfortable with how you handled everything? Was there a page turn or transition or anything else that you felt you hadn’t exactly nailed as well as you would’ve liked? Have you considered just reworking and submitting it to other publishers?

Sometimes intuition kicks in and we instinctively make the right decisions even if the logic behind it doesn’t come for years after. As far as the publisher that interviewed you, were they asking you to change what you considered to be a wordless picture book by adding text (you said you hadn’t written a manuscript for it). Or was there anything during the interview that might have turned you off a bit towards them (i.e. spinach in the art director’s teeth)?

Even just getting so much feedback from a publisher is a success.

Your success isn’t contingent on how much or how little you family supports you. It may be a struggle emotionally, but in the end it’s up to you.

[Alzamon]

Plenty of meat to chew on in this episode. Personally, I think being successful as an illustrator (by the measures most of us define "being successful") is part of what I call "interesting problems to have". Most of us are more likely to suffer from the exact opposite, the 'weekend artist' syndrome and not getting enough traction on social media...

The more time you spend on this field, the more you realize the Field of Dreams fantasy ("build it and they will come") won't happen just because. You need to make people out there be aware about you — and that takes much more work than you think.

Networking, making friends and acquaintances in the business has always been and still is key — something that in these pandemic times has been a lot harder to come through, admittedly. From that point of view I miss live trade events, festivals and the like — they are vital to sharpen your networking skills and to learn how to sell yourself.

If anything, rather than fear success I'd fear not being ready to seize the moment when (or whether) it comes.

In regards to copyright: I agree everything we upload to the Internet should feature our name and contact info somehow. Not because of paranoia of my art "being stolen" but because once you publish it into cyberspace you never know which ways will your artwork take, or how it will end on the eyes of a prospective art director or well-heeled client. This said, I don't always remember to do this but maybe I should, specially on my original art. For original character designs I care enough about, I try to copyright them for my own peace of mind and to secure IP down the line.

[RachelArmington]

@davidhohn Yes, Denril is a synthetic paper like Yupo, but with better tooth. It’s great for ink, although smudgy as it’s plastic. I always thought it would be cool to do a watercolor comparison between Yupo and Denril.

Cool story about the Little (jpeg) Dutch Boy. Good People are out there.

This whole copyright discussion makes me wonder about other ways of claiming ownership: how many of us out there tag digital images with our names before uploading them onto websites? Does tagging matter for social media?

[donnamakesart]

I wrote this question months ago and realized how vague and sad it sounds Since the letter was going to be read on the podcast, I thought a short question would be respectful of everyone’s time but if you really want to hear my praise all day, I’ll shoot you guys a novel-long one in my next email

Each of you gave really solid advice. @Lee-White nailed it when he said I was stuck on an idea of defining what “being an illustrator” actually meant and feeling overwhelmed with the jobs being thrown my way. Breaking down the process and figuring out what I enjoy most is an awesome idea I really love how you problem solve everything like a scientist — through meticulous process of elimination that’s at odds with your squirrel like energy haha. Out of the three, I have personally found your teaching style and advice the best for me

It was a confidence booster to hear the @Jake-Parker say I’ve got what it takes to be an illustrator. I was squealing on the inside haha. I’ve followed you on Youtube for years and have deep respect for you as a professional artist Early on, I really struggled because I wasn’t skilled enough. I never thought finding my “Why” or my “vision” would be equally hard Same as you, I started out as an animator too! And have since been a generalist branching out to new thing, accepting whatever jobs came my way. Because of that, I haven’t been fallen short of work, but I’ve reached a point where I want to niche down, focus in on what I want to do the most. Perhaps this would be an interesting topic for another podcast like a “Jack of All Trades or Master of One” the pros and cons of being a generalist + how to niche down haha.

@Will-Terry is definitely the heart in your 3 point perspective. Likewise, I’ve listened to your Youtube channel and always felt inspired by your interviews and personal journey I tend to be overly serious and purpose-driven in all things but especially in my art work. It’s easier to tell myself “I’m making art to show an art director” vs “I’m making art to please myself” but I’m learning that you don't always need to have practical reasons for making art. It just needs to be a meaningful experience/ project to you

If I would summarize the answer, it would be this: “you’ve got to make art for yourself while enjoying each step of the process towards a bigger goal so you can motivate yourself to do the work ”

Thank you Lee, Jake, and Will for answering my question Feeling very encouraged and motivated indeed

[Randi Gordon]

@RachelArmington said in How To Deal With Fear Of Success:

@Randi-Gordon I’m a few months behind in my podcast-listening, so I haven’t listened to this particular episode yet. But…

You’ve probably heard about imposter syndrome (which can lead people to self-sabotage) as there has been so much discussion about it the last few years.

Specific to what you’ve written though: Have you ever revisited the dummy you submitted to the publisher? Were you comfortable with how you handled everything? Was there a page turn or transition or anything else that you felt you hadn’t exactly nailed as well as you would’ve liked? Have you considered just reworking and submitting it to other publishers?

Sometimes intuition kicks in and we instinctively make the right decisions even if the logic behind it doesn’t come for years after. As far as the publisher that interviewed you, were they asking you to change what you considered to be a wordless picture book by adding text (you said you hadn’t written a manuscript for it). Or was there anything during the interview that might have turned you off a bit towards them (i.e. spinach in the art director’s teeth)?

Even just getting so much feedback from a publisher is a success.

Your success isn’t contingent on how much or how little you family supports you. It may be a struggle emotionally, but in the end it’s up to you.

Thanks for your thoughtful response, @RachelArmington, much appreciated. I hadn’t thought of imposter syndrome, really ought to do a deep dive into that. I suspect it dovetails sharply with “fear of success.”

My book dummy at the time consisted of about a dozen pages, maybe half a book, because A. I hadn’t finished writing it and B. I was CLUELESS at the time about submissions and book dummies. In retrospect it’s a miracle I got any response at all. The art director I met with was extremely encouraging, and said she couldn’t wait to read the rest of the story. I couldn’t bear to tell her it didn’t exist yet, so I nodded and said I’d send it along right away. Then I just… collapsed, for all the reasons mentioned.

I suppose it’s worth a look at that story, if only to figure out what was attractive enough about it to warrant a response from a Top 5 children’s publisher, which, if I’m honest, the significance of which was truly lost on me as a total newbie. I just had no idea back then how great it was to even get a callback. The fact that my folks (and husband at the time) were so unimpressed only confused me more, I guess. Never listen to your parents!!

[Jules]

Wow this was a great podcast episode! This past school year I had a major 15 piece project that I had to complete and it left me feeling burnt out. I had a lot of people say great things about it, but they left me with a sort of fear of success that my next year’s project will fall short. Because of this pressure and some leftover burn out, I have been avoiding next years art project despite a lot of ideas that I am excited about working on. Every time I sit down I just freeze up.
Has this happened to anyone else? What do you do to move past it?

[Laurel Aylesworth 0]

@Lee-White Thank you for your response to Donna's letter. I'm in the midst of my first paid picture book project and I'm freezing up a bit with all the white noise that comes from the pressure I put on myself. It's such a creativity killer. Each stroke of my pencil is immediately put into question by my inner art director. That said, I'm taking your advice on focusing on the parts of the process I enjoy and if it's not perfect, that's fine, as long as I know I enjoyed it and did my best.

[davidhohn]

@RachelArmington

This whole copyright discussion makes me wonder about other ways of claiming ownership: how many of us out there tag digital images with our names before uploading them onto websites? Does tagging matter for social media?

You know I love me some copyright discussion!
But can you clarify what you mean here?
Tagging as in hidden metadata imbedded in the file or putting your name somewhere visibly on the image posted? Or something else entirely?

For me putting your name visibly (but unobtrusively) on images posted online (portfolio website, FB, IG, Twitter etc) isn't about claiming ownership.

At least not in terms of: "This is MINE. Don't TOUCH!!"

Rather it's: "Hey, do you like this image? Want more? Go here!(my website) Or google this name! (mine)"

[NicolaSchofield]

I have an image of a gorgeous painting that I would love to buy a print of but I can't find it anywhere There is nothing on the image to help me find the artist. Reverse image search sometimes helps in these situations but not always. (Pinterest is a huge pain when trying to trace image sources!)

I also remember reading that some art directors will be shown images out of context - someone in the office will put together a PowerPoint of images from illustrators they're considering for a project and then this will get passed around and images will be taken out and shown to other people for their projects, etc, etc

My takeaway was that you need to assume your images will be seen in isolation and make it super easy for people who want to hire you to find you and contact you.

I'm still not very good at doing this though - it feels kinda weird to put my name on each image in a portfolio. (I've just had a look at how you do it on your website @davidhohn and it's super subtle - I shall follow this example!)