Is there a time to graduate from SVS?

Kristen Lango

@chrisaakins I really relate to a lot of things you've brought up in this post, so first things first, you're not alone

Secondly, one key thing I take away from critique arena is the conceptual aspect of illustration - what I mean to say is that techniques aside, the contest helps me to see that my conceptual idea creation isn't at the level it should be.

That said, your piece was lovely and had a lot of emotion in that expression and movement, but I think when I see it next to others (and this goes for my work as well) it doesn't exactly feel like a fresh new idea with a clever twist to it.

Again, everything I'm saying is what I also say to myself. I think it's really easy for us to look at our work and say "I've spent 30 hours on this, I've nailed the perspective and gesture and lighting, so why isn't it in the top 16?" And when I've asked myself that question the answer is usually: well it lacks that uniqueness of a truly creative concept.

I hope this is useful to you and know that you're not the only one struggling with the self-doubt... and however cheesy it sounds haha I think you can grow from that doubt rather than give into it. I hope you figure out what's right for you

chrisaakins

@Kristen-Lango ahh the bane of concept versus execution. I seem to execute well or have a cool concept but I struggle with marrying the two. I am thinking now that this piece would be a sort of intro to the story and as Will said once, " when entering these pics that are a one-shot deal, you have to give me the "money shot", not the lead up to the money shot." haha!

Well, I am still not sure I will continue to enter the contests and renew my membership at the end of the summer. Honestly, at this point, I was only keeping the membership up to enter the contests. Not sure that is a good use of my money and time. Last year it paid off because I won twice. This year I have only had one piece break into the top 16. CUZ EVERYONE IS LIKE STEPPING UP THEIR GAME!!! haha! Seriously, I thought I did a cool tree house and then I looked at everyone else's and was like "Whoa, the lessons were totally learned from the Fairy Tale Inn and Albert's home (two that I won) Everyone had great shapes and cool designs that were very original. I need to step up my game. " Everyone did a great job of thinking outside the box and adding awesome storytelling elements. I thought my boat in a tree idea was unique and original and I ended up being like one of ten people to do so and theirs were way cooler! haha!

So kudos to everyone. As an art teacher, I love seeing everyone growing so fast as artists. I think though that I need to focus more on the business side: getting a portfolio critique, sending out postcards, hustling for more business, etc. I have loved the accountability and the community. It would have been nice to get on that final scoreboard along with the " greats" but I think I need to settle for "hey I get to draw for a living and that's way cool!"

Kristen Lango

@chrisaakins haha I totally get everything you're saying! And oh my gosh I know about the treehouses! I was really impressed and intimidated, and the same goes for this month with storm too!

Definitely I think there's a time to focus on the skills and a time to focus on business - I'm not sure doing both at the same time is really the best way or even possible for that matter.

It sounds like you know where you're headed and what your next steps are, so hats off!

And congratulations on being able to make art for a living! Such a huge win in it's own right.

PenAndrew

@chrisaakins Hopefully you will still stay on the forums and participate in that even if you decide not to continue your subscription. You may need a break and then come back to SVS in the near future. I am sure you will be missed if you leave us here, so I hope you stay on the forums.

My art teacher at school was responsible for inspiring me to become an artist. His name was Mr Marshall. I wish I could have said thanks to him for being kind and liking my art. Another student told me how much he liked my work, I guess she was kind too, to share that knowledge to an insecure teen, as I was back then.

The seemingly small things that we share and give are really priceless and the real treasures that resonate throughout our lives.

@chrisaakins Thanks Chris and everyone else for sharing here. As someone who doesn't have an artistic peer group (since I was from a completely different industry) being able to commiserate with other artists on frustrations and disappointments is also really valuable.

So maybe that's another reason to keep putting your work out there, whether through contests or otherwise. You never know when someone is learning from or being inspired by it!

PenAndrew

@JQ Yes, you are not alone with feeling disappointment. All creatives feel it.

demotlj

As someone who has been "with you" on the forum since very early on, let me be honest -- I don't think you don't need to enter the contests anymore. You have improved immensely since you started, you are a very good artist, you have a style that is your own, and as you said, the contests don't really provide the kind of critiques which might benefit you at the level you have now achieved. While I think the contests can help build portfolios and provide insight into story-telling and composition, etc. they can also become an exercise in trying to "learn the judges" and even they admit that sometimes it just comes down to very subjective choices.

I'm not putting down the contests -- I think they are fun -- but they can become self-defeating when they make us question our art. I actually came to where you are a few months ago and decided to stop entering the contests. This is partly because I am doing more nature watercolors and less illustration these days but it is mainly because I realized that the emotional uncertainty that resulted from my not making the top 16 wasn't helping me. I had a few Top 16's under my belt -- enough to make me feel Iike I'm not an absolute hack -- but I am now at a point where I need to trust my own artistic vision and style. Every time I didn't get into the top 16, I went a few steps backward in developing that self-trust so I finally said to myself, "The benefits of entering are no longer outweighing the costs to my confidence," and I stopped entering.

Unlike you, I am not looking to be a professional illustrator so my goals are different, but I think the forum might be a better place for you to get feedback and critiques on your work if you need it than the contest. There is more back and forth in the forum, the forum allows you to do follow-up corrections, and it won't leave you guessing as to why you didn't get chosen for the critique arena.

All of this lengthy epistle is to say to you then: I do believe you have graduated from the contests, summa cum laude.

jenn

Everything that has been said in this thread is resonating with me. I am feeling discouraged too and reading everyone's experiences and encouragement has been very validating. I am a teacher too and feeling very burned out. It is so difficult to keep from taking these personally and also to keep believing in the dream of professionally illustrating. Thank you @chrisaakins for sharing your thoughts on the topic. I was too shy to do that.

PenAndrew

@demotlj Yes, I agree with many of these points, I think if we are trying to build up our confidence and find it being diminished it is not helpful, and I think there's a danger of trying to produce work that pleases the judges but doesn't please ourselves.

I am new to the contests but I am feeling a slight detrimental affect on my confidence and study. I joined SVS primarily to study and second to enter the contests. Now I find the contests hold to big a sway on me and my time.
I do also think the forum is the best place to go for a critique because many voices can come our way and we can listen to some or ignore them and learn something in the process.

PenAndrew

@jenn @chrisaakins Yes, thanks Chris for being brave expressing these thoughts and feelings. So, you see your contribution here in the forum is very valuable.

Jeremy Ross

Hi @chrisaakins, I’m with you man!

I stopped entering the contests after my Tiger piece to take a break and focus on learning, strengthening my fundamentals and doing more master studies of work I admired. I don’t have much free time for art, so I rather learn than work on a contest piece.

After entering every contest early on in my art studies, it took me a while to make Sweet 16, but then I started making it in. Few times I made it to top 4, but never won. I built a good portfolio with emphasis on storytelling and the contests helped me do this.

Now, I’m just trying to practice as much as I can to be “To good they can’t ignore me”, as Cal Newport says.

I have zero social media, and love the fact that when I create art, it’s just for me.

In closing, you have definitely graduated and no longer need to compete.

That’s right Chris, you’re a bad ass!

Cheers mate!

chrisaakins

@Jeremy-Ross hahaha! Thanks Jeremy!

NessIllustration

@chrisaakins I have personally never entered the contests! They seem fun and can be helpful in making portfolio pieces and get feedback, however if you already have a portfolio and are getting professional work, then your time can probably be better spent querying, working on contracts or building a second income stream Certainly you shouldn't feel any obligation to keep entering the contests every months if you're not getting much from them anymore.

Russ Van Dine

@chrisaakins I really liked the concept for your tiger entry. i felt like it would have been more effective if your point of view hadn't been higher than the sitting grandpa. a lower point of view would have made me see it through the eyes of the young tigers being painted.

Lee White

I have some thoughts on this, but I’m traveling today. I’ll try to chime in sometime tomorrow. : )

aurelia

Hi Chris, I'm sorry to hear your disappointment about the outcome of the contest. As artists we've all been there from time to time. I think it's a healthy emotion sometimes, it keeps us going forward. And I see your improvement from month to month of the contest pieces. How you try new things like tilting the angle a bit like this storm piece. It's a very good one in my opinion. The rendering, the color, the composition looks very good. Maybe the storytelling part is a bit less interesting. Like they said concept is king. I think it needs a bit more of a unique story.

For me, I think entering the contest is more important for improving our storytelling skills more than our art skills. I think story is a lot more important than art.

I've just read a interesting article here, maybe it's relatable to you.
https://notepd.com/idea/10-mind-altering-tips-for-artists-who-want-to-achieve-greatness-in-their-lifetime-qdtjl

And a short clip interview of Brad Rushing, I like what he said in the first 3 1/2 min.

Kim Rosenlof

@aurelia Thanks for posting this article. They are all good points. For me, #1 and #2 are things that I need to make sure that I focus on. The first one is hard not to do as an artist. I know that Lee, Jake, and Will have all talked about a lot (along with some of the other points). It is good advice, but hard to follow .

@chrisaakins I like your work and it is cool to see the the progress you have made over time. I think that concept is always key in the contests, so if the story is not compelling enough, then it may not get chosen. Maybe you could compare your entries with others and see if your story is compelling compared to them. In fact, ask other people (without letting them know which one is yours) which idea is more interesting since we are usually are biased towards our own or people we know. This could let you know if your concept is interesting to others.

It is hard to not know how you could improve your piece if they don't get picked or critiqued, so I understand the frustration with that. It would be cool and scary to see a video of Lee, Jake, and Will picking the top 16 and get an insight of why they choose what they choose (like they mentioned during the last Critique Arena). It would be hard to see your own piece taken out, but at least you would know why it happened.

lizardillo

Hiya @chrisaakins, sorry to hear you are feeling a bit disheartened about the contests but please don't be. You have been entering for a long time, you've had some wins, some losses, but it's all experience. It sounds like they have been very worthwhile for you as you have used them to learn and develop, which I feel is the aim of them. You now have a portfolio and regular work. Brilliant!

I would try and keep seeing them as a bit of fun and use them to continue to hone your skills, paid work should come first and then the prompts are the chance to just go wild! You've got nothing to lose, the worst that can happen is you don't get picked. The aim is... (to quote Lee) "Every time you'll learn something brand-spanking new"

Look at the positives - your storm entry didn't get picked, but you said it was one of the best illustrations so far - which is great. Personal development is what we are all here for. Looking at it all I would say is the boy was not doing anything that anyone wouldn't normally do in a storm, but that is only in the context of the critique arena and not every image needs to be tailored to the arena. A children's book does not have crazy-wild images on every page, the kids would be exhausted! Look at it outside of the arena context - is a wonderful image in it's own right so yes, you should be very proud of it (that brickwork is spot on!).

Like you have said the critique arena is a bit of a one-shot image. I always think it's a chance to just go wild with the concept but some months it's to challenge myself to do something I'm not good at. Full backgrounds and environments just aren't my thing - I'm terrible at them!

Celebrate your personal 'wins'. Look back at WHY you think it was your best so far, write down what you think it was. Did you manage to make a breakthrough with a rendering technique you were struggling with? Learn to shift perspective/POV a little which made the scene more dynamic and it's now something you will keep in mind in the future? Actually found the perfect brush for the job? It all adds up. If have improved something then that's great, you can now use that new skill for something else.

If you are feeling a bit burnt-out then take a break, I'm having trouble having time to even come on the forum lately (not because of illustration work unfortunately) but I'm still watching the replays because I find then really interesting and useful.

You are free to pick-and-choose the prompts that excite you and leave the ones you don't. If you see a prompt that makes you think HELL YEAH then go for it! Make prompt-time into fun-time!

I was looking forward to the treehouse one as I love making crazy structures but I didn't think I was going to be able to enter. I ended up doing my panda treehouse on the day before deadline. I just really WANTED to do it and ended up finishing it off while round at a friends BBQ (the joy of the iPad). I didn't feel like HAD to do the prompt, I wanted to, which I think is important. I knew it was a bit rough and lots of bits need more development but I just had some fun. I also know that my illustrations are a bit too detailed for viewing in the arena but that is my style and I just wanted a panda's treehouse for my portfolio. Did anyone notice the bamboo cocktail with bamboo straw? - Probably not but it didn't matter because I it gave me a giggle drawing it (although they have now changed it a little so you can see around the images a little more before voting).

Thanks for tagging me, I'm so pleased and honoured that you find some of the concept/progress examples I have put up in the past as useful. I would not say that I am farther ahead than you tho, your work is excellent. I do not have ANY paid illustration work, I'm also getting rejections/radio silence from agents etc. so I still have a very long way to go to get to a real pro level. I'm full of self-doubt and low confidence but I'm going to keep trying.

Feel free to give me a shout if you want to discuss anything.

Chris you're doing great so a big congratulations to all you have achieved so far.

Liz

Lee White

I'm finally back from my trip so I wanted to weigh in really quick. First off, congratulations on getting consistent work in illustration! That in itself says a lot about the work you are doing and your level. Very well done!

I took a look at your website and the work over the past year has been TONS better than the stuff from 2021! There is still some inconsistency showing in the work overall, but overall such a vast improvement. It still seems like you are finding your style to me, but it's coming along nicely.

The thing about your entry in this specific month is that it falls under what I call "Segue or Story advancement Art". I have two categories that work generally fits into (not just with the contest, but overall within all of illustration). The other category is "Show or Sell Art". Here's how I define the two:

- Show/Sell Art:

Has "wow" factor - great for portfolio or gaining new clients or followers.
New, Unusual, or unfamiliar take on common/familiar things
Is interesting even without all the "Art Elements" (Value, lighting, paint, color, etc.)
Common uses are Covers, contest entries, stand alone portfolio pieces.

- Segue or Story advancement art

Sticks closely to specific text or descriptions.
Common or typical subject matter, Feels familiar
Can be more intimate and sentimental than Show/Sell art.
NEEDS art elements done PERFECTLY to actually pull it off in an interesting way
Comon uses are interior art and spot art to move a story along

The thing about segue or story advancement art is that it can be done very well and be perfect for an interior. BUT, these types of images will never win in a contest. This is what we thought about your image for the contest. "Hey, this is pretty nice" is what we thought (and it is nice!). But it just didn't seem to add anything new or make us feel that there was more here. It was just a nice image. For a contest, it needs to probably lean toward the Show/sell kind of image. It needs to either be new subject matter (or at least unfamiliar), OR show something familiar in an entirely new way. To showcase an example of this, compare these two images:

Both are very well done. But that star image is so unexpected and funny and creative and and and! It just does so much in terms of being interesting and making us say "hey wait, who did this one??!!!! It's awesome!". Ultimately the storm image just doesn't rise to that level. If you did want to showcase this imagery, I think you have to lean into your art elements more to add some drama and make it more unique.

Hopefully this all makes sense. I'm actually doing a full video with examples of this exact topic that will be uploaded today on my patreon (cheesy sales trick here!). But overall it's important to know what kind of image you are doing. Is it a show/sell image? or is it a seque/story advancement image?

As for the question of entering anymore or not, that can only be answered by you. The contests are great for being locked into subject matter we may not normally do and really trying to lean into it and get something good. As others have said, making the top 16 should never be the goal, but I understand why it's nice to hit that and can be discouraging not to get in. I am never a fan of people doing work that they don't need to be doing instead of doing the work they SHOULD be doing (that's why i hate murmay!). So maybe you enter the ones that lean toward what you want to do and skip the ones that don't fit? Just a thought.

I do think as people advance there is a need to go from general study to more specific study in a particular area. This means studying with a teacher or mentor one on one. It's hard to get to the pro level without this at some point. The needs of each person become so specific that a general class or video can't address what is needed.

Again, you are doing great work and obviously you are seeing the results from that in client work and getting in the contest top 16, etc. So I'd just say keep on keepin' on! You are doing great!

Asyas_illos

@Lee-White great insight thank you for sharing you thoughts on this.