A little disturbed

@TessaW I don't compare the experience of the live critiques with other contests, but I know that this is much more public than they usually are. If a jury chooses, it is private, and there is no commentary most of the time about why some make it and why some don't.

What I compare it to is the classroom critiques I had when I was in design school 20 years ago. Those were brutal. Critiques in classrooms can be a public assessment of your skills and not healthy for building the kind of confidence some need. Some people thrive on this, but I needed more privacy. It was not a contest, but it always clear who the 'winner' was, yet each piece got attention and ideas for improvement. There was also the important component of talking about your piece, explaining what you were trying to achieve. I know very well how that environment affected me; I was not ready for it, and I was not mature about it.

I participated in all the live critiques except today's this year, and December's (iirc) was exactly when it had changed to voting. If you look at some of the old critiques on SVS, they have full draw-overs and none of it feels like a competition. Or, if it does, the competition is the one the artist has within their own work. So to me, the format now is something between a classroom critique and a competition by votes, and I will be entering each contest as I am able, and then specifically NOT attending the live critiques. I think the contests are great; I think my tendency to compare myself with others means I can't handle the live sessions yet.

So the contest, as it is now, improves my work each month. Looking at what everyone submits is one of the most amazing parts of it, and we wouldn't be able to see those if it were a more typical contest. I study the entries as much as I can. But I am not ready to attend a contest that is determined by voting because I need to work on understanding what I think of my own work BEFORE I start comparing it to other artist's work.

So @dafoota I would suggest that you make sure you are clear on your own expectations of your work when you create an entry. Yours was beautiful, btw. What do you want to explore that has nothing to do with winning a contest? Your portfolio can be ANYTHING you want! This is such an exciting idea I have sometimes forgotten when I'm desperate for feedback or a particular path. In a traditional class you would have assignments that would need to be done in a certain way with more restrictions, but here, you get the prompt while you're free to pursue anything you might need in your portfolio. You also might want to consider not attending the live critique if it helps you keep going with producing work. Because wondering what the judges want is honestly not going to get you anywhere. I do relate so well to your post here. I have been surprised at how unnerving it can be. If it's a throwback to all the painful critiques I experienced in design school, I guess this is my chance to work through that and get better at it. (seriously the good classes were the ones that had the reputation for making students cry in front of everyone, just the worst!) Right now for me it means setting myself up to do my best work and until i'm more mature about where I see my work going outside of anyone else's expectation, I won't attend the live critique sessions. I can't seem to sit still in a zoom session these days anyway! I also just want to assure you that you're not alone in your frustration, it's hard! But it's a good contest, so I hope you continue entering along with us.

frankiiij

@TessaW RESPECT! Thank you for your insight on the contest and history of it. To clarify my focus isn’t my piece. It is to understand what the 3 point professionals know that i do not. Being so young at pursuing art and practically speaking i do not expect anything of mine to be selected. I see how much more I need to grow. On a personal, level I do not want to even be selected. I have even wrestled with submitting but asking not to be selected. I just want the constructive criticism.

My frustrations is more with the reasons, the selection process, and the miscommunication with the prompts. After today and comments I think I’m at the point that it is more about what they prefer over concept and artwork. For example, @Ryan-Ehr ‘s Penguins was simply stunning both for artwork and for concept and wasn’t even selected. I recognize that my opinion carries no weight due to lack of credibility, however *** SIXTY-ONE *** other people liked it. The critique was “It didn’t fit the concept.” If i were going to fit for a piece it would definitely be this one over mine everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. Haha

Thank you for your time and patience. Much love ONE!

frankiiij

@chrisaakins There was 120 submission and they gave one critique which was awesome. I am thankful @Will-Terry and Mr Painter took the time out. I am also impressed with the talent this community possesses.

frankiiij

@carolinebautista Thank you for your insights on self evaluation in regards to the contest. So I work with a famous comic book artist and i know i annoy him sometimes because i bug him about criticizing my work. I ultimately just want to see what i don’t see but what professionals do.

Thank you for your compliment too. So @Will-Terry struck a question “what if he didn’t go to art school and went through the svs path?”

I’m kind of considereing art school. I want the feedback no matter how brutal it is. And maybe what i am looking for the svs professionals do not have the ability to do. Which makes sense unless they clone themselves. Maybe i just need to Just create more?

Anyways thank you for your time and Patience.

Much Love.ONE!

frankiiij

@TessaW Thank You for your kind words. Much Love. ONE!

TessaW

@carolinebautista Ahh, interesting points. I can see where this format could be really hard for some people!

@dafoota Ah, I see. I can see that frustration. I was talking with some people earlier, and we were also analyzing over the selection process and the prompt interpretation of the judges. I expected to see @ryan-ehr 's piece there too. I really appreciate the discussion you've sparked!

@dafoota Yeah, just create more! I know that ultimately I need to have the judgement to move my work in the right direction WITHOUT feedback. And I don't want to pay anyone else to teach me that. So I am working on actively developing good judgement about my own work. This includes feedback sometimes, especially in the beginning, but it also means shutting some things out and giving myself space and I can't stop and wait for feedback to move me forward. I think having good judgment about one's own work is by far the most brutal thing.

I still don't know if this is possible to do without professional guidance. One thing I know is no artist ever found their voice by worrying about what professionals see, or about contest outcomes. Contests need to be a side thing, not a primary thing.

@TessaW Hopefully more people can talk about how other contests compare. It's mostly my personal issues from a long time ago that I need to master.

StudioLooong

My thought on why the judges went with more negative takes (and also the reason I didn't enter the contest) lies in the etymology of the word "isolation". I know that there was some talk that isolation doesn't have to be negative but if you look at the origin of the word, there is some negative sentiment there that may be why some brighter takes missed the mark:

"to set or place apart, to detach so as to make alone, from the latin word insulatus, meaning 'made into an island.'"

The nuance of this word implies an involuntary divide. It is not a state that one can freely enter and exit, it is forced aloneness, it has permanence. Since the word implies that the subject being isolated doesn't have control over that state of being, it would naturally come with uncomfortable or negative feelings.

In my opinion, if they wanted to leave room for more positive takes, they could have chosen a word like "alone" which doesn't have as much weight behind it. One can choose to, and may enjoy being alone. They can end their alone-ness at any time by seeking company. Alone is a more temporary state of being, it is visiting an island as opposed to being made into one.

For contests like this the prompt word needs to be easily derived from your illustration, even from someone unfamiliar with the prompt and for people trying to do a positive spin, the judges couldn't get there.

frankiiij

@carolinebautista beautiful! Respect!

KathrynAdebayo

The humility and sincerity of this thread impresses me. What valuable insights, guys... thank you for such great discussions on this forum. I am learning so much thanks to you all.

frankiiij

@TessaW I’m glad you all didn’t take it negative. I was working so hard to voice with breeding hate you know? Thank you for your positivity.

frankiiij

@Coreyartus respect! Thank you for your time and insight. What you communicated has allowed me to reconstruct my perspective. Thank you for a much valuable 2¢.

Much love. One!

frankiiij

@StudioLooong respect! Thank you for your insight. I don’t have an issue with isolation if [1] lee didn’t communicate the inverse and [2] the two winning were actually negative since that was the amended criteria.

Clarification: this is not about the winners artwork. Their work is fantastic.

The context of my post lies with the consistency of the judging. The last two live critiques they emphasize content however some pieces get pushed out for what the selected ones also do!

Much love. One!

Ryan Ehr

@dafoota Thanks for the kind words! I really appreciate both the positive and negative points brought up. I'm not salty, but you are correct that the interpretation is a tough one and it's frustrating when told it didn't match. I know I'm not the only one that tries to find a new take on the prompts to show originality (most of you do too ;). Maybe mine (and others) just slipped past that threshold for the judges. In the real world, you won't win over every art director and that's part of the point of these.
Also, it honestly made me super happy to see all the positive comments in the chat- made my day!
Big congrats to all the winners this month! There were way more than 16 awesome pieces when I went through the slideshow.

hannahmarie

Hi! I’m new to the forum and I really enjoyed watching the competition last night! I just wanted to say I really loved your piece and think it looked really professional. I also liked quite a few that didn't get through to the final such as the penguin one, maybe this is because I look at things with a picture book mindset! Most of the ones I voted for didn't win also! I was thinking about doing the June brief but I'm really unsure as it isn't something I would generally think to draw for a picture book portfolio. It's a difficult one, I might try to do something that feels more comfortable to me that is loosely related but then that means not meeting the brief… Is anyone else a little stuck on the next one? Maybe it is partly being from the Uk, as I wouldn't expect to see a picture book like that here?! How you used the word 'disturbed' made me think of the brief!

Kat

Just to add one more voice my preference on how the contests are held is the critique format rather than voting. It’s lots of fun to watch the voting, but as a student I learn MUCH more from the critiques, even if my piece isn’t included.

Maybe a combination-critiques, then participants vote on the winner.

Regardless, this is still a great platform to connect and learn, and I appreciate the work that SVS does to keep the forums and challenges going for us all.

frankiiij

@Ryan-Ehr Respect. Thank you for your positivity and humility. It was a concern of mine that me voicing my opinion would be a spring board of negativity, which is not my intention. I just believe that accountability should not be something that is unreachable. I do not want to force the judges to take a specific piece or be punish. I am simply looking to plead for more structure and more guidance. Thank you for your time and patience. Much love. One!

Rachel Horne

HI everyone - this is a really interesting discussion! I thought I'd add my two pennies worth even though everyone's already made so many good points that I'm just going to repeat! I think to improve and grow as an artist you have to distance yourself a little from the work you produce and be prepared to hear negative feedback - you can choose to take or leave that feedback but it's important to remember where it's coming from and I think everyone here agrees that Will, Lee and Jake are very well placed to give constructive criticism. At the end of the day, if the work is technically solid then surely the rest is down to personal taste and you can't do anything about that. I'm personally really grateful for the time and energy all the people behind the scenes put into SVS and I think the critiques are a great way to grow.

Lucky Platt

Echoing what's been said already in this great thread, I think the 'prompt' and the deadline (for those of us who are motivated by deadlines, for me they're essential!) are just catalysts - the possibilities are always wide open and the reward is the work. I also think it's really hard to give constructive feedback rapid-fire, and I felt Will and Aaron were really under pressure in that respect last night, and seemed to express a lot of 'gut feeling' which they might have refined with more time. Still I appreciated seeing all the wonderful work (big WOW!) and the generous time and effort on the part of the judges, and all the comments from participants.

It could be and probably should be its own thread, but @TessaW I'm with you on the desire for SVS to present more diverse voices - SVS instructors, featured artists, shout outs on the podcast, referenced artists and so on are overwhelmingly white guys. Sometimes when I'm listening to the podcasts I find myself laughing/shouting out 'oh come on, that is such a dude's experience!!'...or similar sentiment. Obviously we all have to be ourselves and I'm hugely appreciative of the podcasts for being genuine and candid. In fact the podcasts have been an invaluable resource and lifeline for me, accompanying me through my first book process last year. Still, looking at all the good that SVS offers - educational platform, resource, place for community-building - I do miss, want, and honestly at some point will lose interest without hearing more from and about creators who are not white guys. Let's continue talking about this!