We need a safe word
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@burvantill Ok what if you had “PRAISE” if you don’t really want a critique, or “CRITIQUE” if you do?
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@burvantill I totally get what you're saying. However, instead of a safe word, I propose that when someone wants feedback on a WIP, they ask specific questions. For example: Please look at my... composition, concept, emotion, values, colors, or is what I'm trying to communicate coming through to you?, etc. And if they do not want feedback on something, like if they're still exploring color sketches, they might say, "please don't comment on the colors yet".
When someone asks for any feedback and doesn't narrow down my lens, it can be an overwhelming task unless there are obvious issues.
Lastly, giving good critiques is an art in itself. It takes practice, time and thought. I usually comment on a WIP if I feel that I can say something of value that someone else hasn't already said. But sometimes, I'm stumped and don't know how to help, or think my feedback may not be very useful or correct. When this happens, I usually just give an upvote for sharing.
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@Johanna-Kim I like this... learning communication skills
@Johanna-Kim said in We need a safe word:
@burvantill I totally get what you're saying. However, instead of a safe word, I propose that when someone wants feedback on a WIP, they ask specific questions. For example: Please look at my... composition, concept, emotion, values, colors, or is what I'm trying to communicate coming through to you?, etc. And if they do not want feedback on something, like if they're still exploring color sketches, they might say, "please don't comment on the colors yet".
When someone asks for any feedback and doesn't narrow down my lens, it can be an overwhelming task unless there are obvious issues.
Lastly, giving good critiques is an art in itself. It takes practice, time and thought. I usually comment on a WIP if I feel that I can say something of value that someone else hasn't already said. But sometimes, I'm stumped and don't know how to help, or think my feedback may not be very useful or correct. When this happens, I usually just give an upvote for sharing.
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This is so hard and something that should be talked about. Really unless you know the person pretty well, it’s very hard to know how they will respond to a real critique of their work because even when some people are asking for a critique, they still do not respond well to critical feedback. I am guilty of avoiding commenting on posts when I see that there are a lot of things that need work because I don’t want anyone to feel discouraged and I have been in critique situations where people have gotten angry, cried, etc because they didn’t like what they were hearing. But really that says more about me than anything. I would be super bummed if I posted something for critique and did not get any comments, so I am going to try harder to comment on more posts. I think SVS cultivates a culture where critiques will be more positive and constructive than most open critique situations or the internet in general and we need to trust that the people who are asking for feedback here want to benefit from receiving constructive comments and the ones who cannot handle receiving feedback will stop asking or leave.
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I agree with @Johanna-Kim . Posting a piece for feedback with a specific focus will help facilitate a more productive exchange. If that's paired with feedback that helps the artist make a few steps of progress (or at least recognize some solutions to implement), I'd count that as a successful critique.
When I played in my high school orchestra, we sounded horrendous anytime a new piece was introduced to us. Trying to tackle every problem at once would have been pretty counter-productive; instead, our teacher would break up the piece and focus on a certain area for a day or two before moving to the next. That focused approach helped even the most daunting pieces become manageable.
Another suggestion I'll throw in there is if someone is earnestly looking for feedback, and there is an SVSer who they feel gives objective and actionable critiques, perhaps they could tag them in the post and ask specifically for their feedback. Something like "Hey @soandso, I liked what you did in your book cover piece. Mind giving your thoughts on this composition?" It might inadvertently signal to others that they don't want to hear from anyone else, but that could be easily remedied by a simple "And all others please feel free to provide feedback." -
I could always create another category, something like CRIT WANTED
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I agree with @Johanna-Kim too, sometimes people just put "what do you guys think?" I know I have before, but that is a little vague and I find it harder to give constructive feedback as I feel guilty if I write a long paragraph critiquing everything when maybe they just wanted our overall thoughts on the piece!
But in all seriousness, I personally like having really honest feedback (only if it's constructive though) as it helps to grow as an artist and other artists may have better ideas that you never thought of before. So something like 'BE BRUTAL' could work for those who want the honesty and something like 'BE KIND' for those who do get a little disheartened and need a softer approach to begin with - after all, we're all at different levels of learning and some people may not be used to criticism! Fortunately, I was taught to welcome it during University and so far, all I've seen on this forum is absolutely brilliant, informative and kind feedback which have really helped improve some artists and their work
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@Johanna-Kim said in We need a safe word:
I propose that when someone wants feedback on a WIP, they ask specific questions
I agree with all you said. That would be ideal. The problem there is, if the artist is still learning and doesn't really know what that want to ask, do we not say anything in fear that we will crush their budding spirits.
Lisa Burvant
www.lisaburvant.com
Instagram & Twitter & SVS: @burvantill -
@Chip-Valecek CHIP TO THE RESCUE!!! The simplest solution is always the best solution. This way if they do ask a vague, "What do you think", and they are posting in the hot zone (CRIT WANTED), we can feel comfortable giving a good critique knowing that they are prepared for it.
GENIUS!
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@Chip-Valecek Hey Chip, I like your idea of creating a specific category for critiques. It would also be great to have some pointers (somewhere obvious in the forum) on how to give an effective critique, as well as how to ask for a critique. AND maybe this could be a podcast topic? If this info has already been posted, then you could have a link to it.
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@Chip-Valecek great idea
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@burvantill Yes, I know what you mean. I've had my own spirit crushed many, many times, thinking that I could handle a tough critique, and I have lasting scars (ugh-flashbacking now to my old sculpture instructor). Having a safe word, or just saying in a few words-- I don't know what the heck I'm doing. Help! And please be gentle.--could be one way to avert a harsher-than-you-can-handle critique.
With all that said, most artists are extremely sensitive, and bruised feelings can't always be avoided. There's something to be said for developing a tough skin. I'm constantly working on this myself.
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When I want crits I just put it in the comments when I post the image. I just say any comments and crits are welcomed. Artists need to grow a thick skin....and not every crit you get will be correct so you have to take everything with a grain of salt. That being said if there has to be safe word I'd pick :supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
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I like the CRIT WANTED category idea. I also usually put in mine that any crits welcome, but I have also passed over commenting on others for fear of hurting someone's feelings. Maybe I need to ask the person posting a few questions first, such as asking what specifically they are looking for help on. I was given the advice years ago to always start a critique with something positive, and then to kindly mention what I think needs work. I'm no expert, and I have been on the other side of a rough crit, so my aim is always to help and not to discourage. We can all only move forward from where we're at today. Maybe we can all make an effort to try to comment more on the posts that don't get as much love.
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Sometimes it just takes too much time and energy to explain specifically to a new illustrator why their drawing doesn't work or why it looks unfinished. 1:1 critique takes a lot of critical thinking from the part of the reviewer and then needs to be filtered through appropriate commentary filters so no one ends up despairing. It's also hard to know where someone is in their career based off single posts here and there.
Anyway, I feel like I'd be repeating nice-isms like...
- Keep drawing!
- Just keep on working and your style will emerge.
- "Talent" takes time and a lot of practice. It doesn't happen overnight.
- You'll develop a discerning eye, skills, and eventually you'll be able to match your artwork with your vision.
Well, now that I've written it here, I guess I can just copy and paste for future critique seekers.
Oh, and I love the safe word "CRIT WANTED"
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I added Critique Requested under the parent category Artwork. You should now be able to select that when you create a thread.
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@Chip-Valecek Yay!
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@Johanna-Kim I second your suggestion of getting some guidance on giving a good critique. It's a skill-both in seeing what could be improved in a piece as well as in how to deliver that message. Lee does a brilliant job-I'm thinking of reviewing his posted thoughts on the monthly contests. I suspect that I listen so openly and intently to him is because the technical perspective he brings is so excellent, that how could I quibble? But I'm not prepared to share in that forum my work-it's just not up to that level.
Meanwhile I was just reading the thread with @Jason-Bowen posting for feedback and many joining in but particularly @Johanna-Kim gave feedback in a way that to me seemed focused, with targeted suggestions and it seemed received at well. I wondered if it had been inspired by the good discussion here.
A SVS podcast devoted to this would be awesome!
And @Chip-Valecek - your suggestion of a category for this would be great If the idea is that if you post there/with that category-you're letting us know that you want serious feedback. How could we help new members not wander into that space if its not quite what they're looking for? "Serious feed back here"?
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@Susan-Marks I've thought the crits given on this forum have always been good.
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@Jason-Bowen No quibbles with them always been good; I think some folks were asking when could they be a bit deeper-how can the reviewer feel comfortable or safe in giving pointed feedback. I really learn a lot when the reviewer points out specific suggestions and gives a "why".
