Inktober Book Plagerism Accusations

[pixel.dsp]

@TessaW said in Inktober Book Plagerism Accusations:

I was impressed with this guy's presentation of the situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDNsHVDHfnk&t=2s
This is an excellent video.. thanks for sharing!!

[annegreenstreet]

This is so upsetting. I saw this on Twitter the other day and it kept me up all night. I was too scared to watch the YouTube video. After reading Lee's post, I started watching Alphonso's video. I became more and more incredulous... these are all fundamentals of art that we all learn in our art classes. Nothing is new, there are just new teachers and modes of condensing. I had to stop at "Contour, form, local value, shading, and textures... Now where have I seen that before?!"

I'll tell you where you saw that before, Alphonso. In every. single. art class. ever.

I had never heard of Alphonso, but this video he has lead me to believe he is some kind of huge egomaniac. What kind of person thinks they invented variation in pen stroke? I'm so, so sorry and devastated and sorry that you are going through this, Jake. I hope you know that the angry crowd clearly have not had much art instruction.

Anne

[George Broussard]

The video Lee linked above should be watched and spread by everyone as a balance to Dunn's accusations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDNsHVDHfnk&t=2s

The video is pretty spot on in pointing out the lack of case Dunn has and the potential exposure he's opened himself to.

I realize people are broken into "sides" and most people on the other side wouldn't give this video a watch with an open mind but it doesn't change facts. And the fact is that most of Dunn's video is an emotional response, incorrect as to what's plagiarism, using incomplete info as Jake's book isn't out, all the while flat out condemning Jake for plagiarism and causing irreparable monetary and reputation harm.

I look for a pretty strong response back from Chronicle in the next couple weeks.

[Coreyartus]

Just so I understand (because I don't know for sure but suspect)--how many eyes are typically on a project like this? I would have thought Chronicle would have an editor and an art director and any number of promotional eyes on this during the process of its creation... It was my understanding that part of the job of a publishing house is to know the market of what's out there already. I think Dunn's book is self-published, and I know expecting anyone to know that market is impossible, but a simple Google search or Amazon search renders a list of Pen and Ink-oriented contemporary publications that are available.

I don't know the ins-and-outs of the publishing process to know enough about consistent and similar steps from project to project, and I know they vary depending on the people involved and the nature of calendars and such. But to get this far and not have someone raise a flag somewhere seems... odd. Even industry peer professionals and those who had pre-screening copies of the book at this point (who would be familiar with Dunn's work) didn't say anything? This doesn't seem normal.

I know I'm probably speaking out of ignorance and don't know how these things work, but could someone who has been published and experienced this process before speak to my unawareness so I can learn?

[NessIllustration]

@Coreyartus Both Jake and the publishing team seem to have been aware of the book, because Jake promoted it to his Instagram not too long ago as a great tool for Inktober, and Dunn's book is also listed on Jake's book's Amazon page as a related book (a section called "would go well on the shelf with"). My guess is they know they are familiar with Dunn's book and no one saw a problem they're not that similar except from concepts that are fundamentals taught in every art school in the world. The video linked above (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDNsHVDHfnk&t=2s) does a really great job of breaking down the actual page layout to show how different the book design is done.

[Coley]

@TessaW that video is solid. Thanks for sharing!

[Coreyartus]

Thanks so much, @NessIllustration. Thank-you for sharing your insight. You've always been very generous with your experience and it's really helpful. Now I know.

[Coley]

@Coreyartus yes, this video Ness linked is excellent. I wonder if anyone gonna change their minds on immediate cancelling..ie I'm still unimpressed with Lightbox 🥴

[George Broussard]

@Coley said in Inktober Book Plagerism Accusations:

@Coreyartus yes, this video Ness linked is excellent. I wonder if anyone gonna change their minds on immediate cancelling..ie I'm still unimpressed with Lightbox 🥴

No, they won't. It's not how online discourse works. I expect average people to polarize into tribes. I'm fairly disgusted with Lightbox or Deviant Art who immediately distance from an artist who has a great reputation, really, to just protect their own brands and deflect any incoming criticism. They did so before Jake even issued a response. Instant verdict of guilty to protect their brands. Very disappointed in a guy like Bobby Chiu who should know better.

Cases like this really show you who your friends are? On that note I also notice a huge lack of friends and peers of Jake saying anything about this. Near everyone is being quiet. Nobody wants to be the next victim of the mob, but it's a real shame. People are fairly spineless here. Simple responses like "I'll wait until the book is out or more info appears to make a judgment" would be nice. Only seen a couple so far from art peers.

[Pamela Ruddy]

@George-Broussard @Lee-White and Tom Bancroft (whose art books I have also enjoyed) have spoken up on Instagram in comments - there are probably others but those are the names that I recognised.

[AnthonyWheeler]

@George-Broussard said in Inktober Book Plagerism Accusations:

@Coley said in Inktober Book Plagerism Accusations:

@Coreyartus yes, this video Ness linked is excellent. I wonder if anyone gonna change their minds on immediate cancelling..ie I'm still unimpressed with Lightbox 🥴

No, they won't. It's not how online discourse works. I expect average people to polarize into tribes. I'm fairly disgusted with Lightbox or Deviant Art who immediately distance from an artist who has a great reputation, really, to just protect their own brands and deflect any incoming criticism. They did so before Jake even issued a response. Instant verdict of guilty to protect their brands. Very disappointed in a guy like Bobby Chiu who should know better.

Cases like this really show you who your friends are? On that note I also notice a huge lack of friends and peers of Jake saying anything about this. Near everyone is being quiet. Nobody wants to be the next victim of the mob, but it's a real shame. People are fairly spineless here. Simple responses like "I'll wait until the book is out or more info appears to make a judgment" would be nice. Only seen a couple so far from art peers.

Not everyone wants to stick their neck out without all the facts considering how ridiculous the online cancel culture is right now. I suspect support is coming from lots of different sources and methods though.

[George Broussard]

Went looking on @lightboxexpo 's timeline and it turns out they deleted their tweet cutting ties with Jake, Inktober and SVS.

They certainly didn't post a follow up tweet about the reversal. Just a stealth tweet deletion, so I suspect they just decided internally to back off for now.

[RajSolankiArt]

@George-Broussard I would guess they haven’t reversed their position, but just taken down the tweet to not have the arguments start up on their post

[ajillustrates]

@NessIllustration This video from Moloch is excellent, and features a straight-forward, level headed analysis of Alphonso's accusations, and ultimately previews (in my opinion) the arguments that Chronicle will make if this matter ever ends up in court. This whole situation has been disheartening and frustrating, not only for the specific issue (an inappropriate and premature accusation of plagiarism), but for these general points as well:

• It seems that most artists and fans don't understand what plagiarism, copyright, and trademark actually are in legal terms (especially when you add in the previous uproar over Jake's trademarking of Inktober).
• The desire to feel righteously angry is more important to a large amount of people than the desire to take the time and study whether your anger is actually right.
• How quickly some will play the race card online.
• And, unfortunately, how so many artists lack a firm understanding of art education, art history, graphic design and book layout, and just business in general.

None of those points are particularly shocking, but, like I said above, that makes them no less frustrating and disheartening.

[jthomas]

I really dislike this cancel first culture. Here is a podcast about the subject I think needs to be passed around to people that aren't fully invested in learning more before they pass knee jerk judgments

Stolen Ideas About Originality - David duChemin
https://www.abeautifulanarchy.com/podcast/episode-039

[jthomas]

@ajillustrates These are my arguments. And no one has countered me on them...
The majority must be students that still have grade school tattle-tale mentality...

[Lee White]

@jthomas This is true. If you notice the videos coming out now advocating for fairness are typically seasoned artists. Beginners who don't know the common vocabulary and basic exercises in art education are the most angry. Sadly they are the quickest to post and comment and the least likely to change their position.

But it looks like the tide is shifting somewhat and voices of reason are starting to be heard.

[jthomas]

@Lee-White Agreed. I'm glad we've held this discussion here. Not trying to cause an Issue with Alphonso ( I get why he feels the way he does)

[pixel.dsp]

@Lee-White I guess what I'm most curious to know/learn is that, hypothetically, when an author writes a book and there is a section that is heavily influenced by another author, is explicit reference/credit given in the book enough, or can it be still be considered plagiarism despite appropriate credit/references were given? I'm asking this for my own future reference, should I one day want to publish an instructional art book...
Also, having endured the 57 min-long AD video, his arguments were bordering on paranoia, putting JP in a "guilty no matter what he does" position. AD even criticized that JP worded something differently to appear he was not plagiarizing. But isn't that what authors should do to NOT plagiarize: i.e paraphrase in your own words and not write identical texts word for word? It's like saying a drug addict is not taking drugs because he/she is pretending not to be a drug addict...

[Lee White]

@pixel-dsp I guess it really depends on what the content is and how it was approached. But let's go over them:

Terms: In this case, the actual content is very basic common terms and shapes that all teachers use. They are so basic and common that there is literally no other name for them or way to phrase it differently. To talk about Line, form, shadow, detail, etc. is common to all drawing. If I did a drawing class, I would use the same terms (and have used the same terms). You just can't have a drawing or painting class without using those exact terms. They are the building blocks of art.

Sequence: Just like the "Terms" category, this falls under a very common and logical sequence. It's so common that to do it in another way actually doesn't work. The sequence starts with the most basic thing- a line, then adds some volume to become a form, once that form is made, it is then lit with local color, light and shadow, and finally detail is added (feathers, wood grain,etc.). Again, this is common to almost all teaching of basic art.

Now, It would be much different if someone was talking about something that DIDN"T have a common terminology or structure. For example, if you were to write about a boy wizard and named him Harry. And he was to go to a school, called "Hogwarts". Those terms are NOT common and are VERY specific to a single person's story. So you would be much more guilty of plagiarism if you did that vs. doing a book about something common, such as 2 point perspective.

The other charge is LAYOUT. Jake's layout's don't really look like AD's, but lets suppose they did. How COMMON are those layouts and is there something inherently unique that was copied? The answer is no. It's just some drawings with some text around them using common terminology. For examle, here's AD's layout and one from another pen and ink book. I could VERY EASILY say AD's was stolen from this one. In fact, I bet if I told you these came from the SAME book many of you would believe it. But it's two separate artists and two totally separate books. And if I said it with emotion, many people would believe it. But that isn't the case. AD did NOT copy this at all. It's just normal to layout sketches and text this way. In other words it's EXTREMELY COMMON to do it this way. Which makes the plagiarism charge sort of ridiculous.