Inktober Book Plagerism Accusations

Lee White · 31 Aug 2020, 14:09

@jthomas This is true. If you notice the videos coming out now advocating for fairness are typically seasoned artists. Beginners who don't know the common vocabulary and basic exercises in art education are the most angry. Sadly they are the quickest to post and comment and the least likely to change their position.

But it looks like the tide is shifting somewhat and voices of reason are starting to be heard.

jthomas · 31 Aug 2020, 14:27

@Lee-White Agreed. I'm glad we've held this discussion here. Not trying to cause an Issue with Alphonso ( I get why he feels the way he does)

pixel.dsp · 31 Aug 2020, 16:39

@Lee-White I guess what I'm most curious to know/learn is that, hypothetically, when an author writes a book and there is a section that is heavily influenced by another author, is explicit reference/credit given in the book enough, or can it be still be considered plagiarism despite appropriate credit/references were given? I'm asking this for my own future reference, should I one day want to publish an instructional art book...
Also, having endured the 57 min-long AD video, his arguments were bordering on paranoia, putting JP in a "guilty no matter what he does" position. AD even criticized that JP worded something differently to appear he was not plagiarizing. But isn't that what authors should do to NOT plagiarize: i.e paraphrase in your own words and not write identical texts word for word? It's like saying a drug addict is not taking drugs because he/she is pretending not to be a drug addict...

Lee White · 31 Aug 2020, 21:48

@pixel-dsp I guess it really depends on what the content is and how it was approached. But let's go over them:

Terms: In this case, the actual content is very basic common terms and shapes that all teachers use. They are so basic and common that there is literally no other name for them or way to phrase it differently. To talk about Line, form, shadow, detail, etc. is common to all drawing. If I did a drawing class, I would use the same terms (and have used the same terms). You just can't have a drawing or painting class without using those exact terms. They are the building blocks of art.

Sequence: Just like the "Terms" category, this falls under a very common and logical sequence. It's so common that to do it in another way actually doesn't work. The sequence starts with the most basic thing- a line, then adds some volume to become a form, once that form is made, it is then lit with local color, light and shadow, and finally detail is added (feathers, wood grain,etc.). Again, this is common to almost all teaching of basic art.

Now, It would be much different if someone was talking about something that DIDN"T have a common terminology or structure. For example, if you were to write about a boy wizard and named him Harry. And he was to go to a school, called "Hogwarts". Those terms are NOT common and are VERY specific to a single person's story. So you would be much more guilty of plagiarism if you did that vs. doing a book about something common, such as 2 point perspective.

The other charge is LAYOUT. Jake's layout's don't really look like AD's, but lets suppose they did. How COMMON are those layouts and is there something inherently unique that was copied? The answer is no. It's just some drawings with some text around them using common terminology. For examle, here's AD's layout and one from another pen and ink book. I could VERY EASILY say AD's was stolen from this one. In fact, I bet if I told you these came from the SAME book many of you would believe it. But it's two separate artists and two totally separate books. And if I said it with emotion, many people would believe it. But that isn't the case. AD did NOT copy this at all. It's just normal to layout sketches and text this way. In other words it's EXTREMELY COMMON to do it this way. Which makes the plagiarism charge sort of ridiculous.

pixel.dsp · 31 Aug 2020, 17:29

@Lee-White Thanks for the detailed reply! I hope Chronicles and their lawyers come up with their verdict soon. The suspense is unbearable...

Pamela Fraley · 31 Aug 2020, 19:28

I found this video on the situation to be one of the best responses I’ve seen. The guy is clearly not super fond of Jake. But, he knows what he’s talking about as far as the layout charges and things. and he talks about the unfortunate backlash this could have on Alphonso because of the actions of his followers. I think more people need to see this https://youtu.be/GDNsHVDHfnk

Julia · 31 Aug 2020, 19:42

@Lee-White I like the page with the bear and the explanation on how to render fur. Who is the artist / what is the reference of the book please?

Lee White · 31 Aug 2020, 19:45

Drawing in Pen & Ink by Claudia Nice. Here's a link:

https://www.amazon.com/Drawing-Pen-Ink-First-Steps/dp/0891347178

Marta Kitka · 31 Aug 2020, 20:13

Alphonso did not convince me.
I hope this situation will be solved soon because too much damage is being done to Jake’s reputation.

Julia · 31 Aug 2020, 20:22

@Lee-White thank you very much!

riftweaver · 31 Aug 2020, 22:10

@Lee-White said in Inktober Book Plagerism Accusations:

Drawing in Pen & Ink by Claudia Nice. Here's a link:

https://www.amazon.com/Drawing-Pen-Ink-First-Steps/dp/0891347178

I was actually going to comment that looked like Claudia Nice’s work.

Pamela Ruddy · 31 Aug 2020, 22:38

I've just pre-ordered Jake's book. It isn't delayed for long.

NessIllustration · 1 Sept 2020, 00:10

I've attempted to counter some of the comments on Dunn's video to offer a different perspective, but there's way too many to address and it's so saddening to see some of the replies I just read one that said :

"Seems like Parker lawyered up hard and fast, and I’m sure his legal team will do everything in their power to contest and maybe even counter-sue for defamation and reasonable loss. (Probably on the basis that you can’t claim copyright over a “format or teaching flow”, and that there’s a long history of these kinds of basic fundamentals already published.)
But regardless of what Parker’s lawyers finagle for him, thanks to this video, everyone will know that Parker’s a plagiarist, and an asshole to boot. Hope he gets what he deserves"

It's like no matter what defense case Jake presents and no matter if it's legally settled in his favor, for some of these people Jake's reputation is forever ruined. It's absolutely heartbreaking. I can't believe Dunn did this. Of all ways, professional ways to address something like this he chose the nuclear option, and possibly blew up both himself and Jake at the same time. What a mess.

Carmanda · 1 Sept 2020, 00:44

@NessIllustration My hope is that if this was in fact an emotional reactionary video that reached what ends up being an incorrect conclusion of plagiarism, Alphonso would address his viewers himself with an explanation and apology. It still might not convince everyone, but it could undo damage that another lawyer situation wouldn't. People are still salty about trademarking Inktober, even though a) he explained and apologized for the unintended effects and b) you KNOW you take a risk if you use someone else's IP, especially a logo.

korilynneillo · 1 Sept 2020, 00:51

@NessIllustration I've been seeing that particular opinion a LOT the past few days! I've been very vocal in a few artist discord groups over the past few days and that seems to be the prevailing opinion (aside from a small island of artists that take a similar view to the recent youtube vids posted and think it's monstrously unfair that everyone's jumping to conclusions without seeing both sides). It saddens me that no matter what comes to light, they'll just spin it to Jake being the bad guy.

NessIllustration · 1 Sept 2020, 00:53

@Carmanda At this point I'm not sure Dunn would ever retract himself. Even after seeing the mob descend on Jake, he has done nothing to discourage his fans from the hate and the video is still up, even know it's really risky because he's solidly opening himself up for a lawsuit. He has proven himself to be emotional and reckless. Not only that, in his video it's like he's straining so hard to see similarities yet he's dismissing every difference as Jake attempting to hide the plagiarism. He's descended really far into a confirmation bias whirlpool and has convinced himself very thoroughly. Sending out his impressionable students who do not know better to mob lynch Jake was absolutely reprehensible, and I don't know what we can reasonably expect from someone who'd do that.

MattBaker · 1 Sept 2020, 00:58

This is the "KILL THE BEAST" scene from Beauty and the Beast. Townspeople just wanna poke something with their proverbial pitchforks.

Don't confuse me with facts, my minds already made up.

I hope the truth prevails this time.

George Broussard · 1 Sept 2020, 01:31

@Carmanda said in Inktober Book Plagerism Accusations:

People are still salty about trademarking Inktober

Yes, and this was always insane. A lot of artists, particularly amateur, young, or leaning heavily left, don't understand matters of trademarks, etc. They just see it as being mean. There's 100% nothing wrong with trademarking Inktober and protecting that name and logo mark. Try explaining that to people that are anti capitalism, though. They would understand if they were to ever create or own something valuable.

Coley · 1 Sept 2020, 01:37

@MattBaker you nailed it

Coreyartus · 1 Sept 2020, 01:59

@George-Broussard Youth and the simple lack of experience and worldliness, I get. But I'm not sure it has to do with a political stance or one's embrace of the legalities of capitalism... I think that's a stretch. I, myself am just about as far left as a person can get and I understand the complexities of what's happening. I think we start down a dangerous path when we bring politics into the conversation, as cancel culture exists on both sides of the aisle in its own ways. As a moderator, I'd personally like to avoid opening up that particular can of worms on these forums as it seems this tiny oasis has managed to blissfully sidestep it for a good many years...