Share your book dummy process?

theprairiefox

@xin-li one thing I forgot to mention in step 8 is to take into account your page bleed. Because my process is physical it is extremely important to make sure your illustration has the extra .5in of height and width to fit the bleed.

theprairiefox

@davidhohn very cool process. Love this for the pacing. Do you add value to your sketches before sending to an editor? So much is lost without value...

davidhohn

@theprairiefox Every. single. time.

Honestly, adding value to my rough sketches is probably my favorite part of the book. As that's where the real storytelling begins.

theprairiefox

@davidhohn I figured. I love working in value. It adds so much life to the sketches. I am so happy that you and @Lee-White introduced us to that process in "Turbocharging your creativity". It really changed how I approach my design.

davidhohn

@theprairiefox Thrilled to hear it! I still remember learning it from illustrator Mark English. Pretty much blew my mind!

xin li

@davidhohn thank you so much for sharing how you study/analyze picture books. I am going to do this process with every picture book I love.

KaraDaniel

I'm working on a dummy book too! They are a lot of work! lol. Here's how I'm doing it, (I don't think there is really a right or wrong way.)

had a fully edited final draft ready before any drawing took place
sketched character ideas
Took the finished manuscript and started breaking it down into pages. (Much like Jake did on one of the SVS classes with little red riding hood)
Did thumbnails of all the pages on paper
Printed the text out for each page and drew the thumbnails larger and more refined on 8.5x11 paper and glued the text in the appropriate place
scanned all of them into my computer and put them in a document together
painted two finished spreads

Heres my thoughts on it...I don't know how I would have done this without a finished manuscript...I felt like figuring out the pace of the story was the hardest part and without a complete story I would be lost. Also, I ended up not liking the way I drew my characters so my final paintings are unusable as is most of my spreads because I'm drawing them different now. Problem is I've been working on this book for 8 years and I'm getting a little bored of it so who knows how long it will take me to finish!

Yours is looking great so far! I hope you do share more as you continue.

davidhohn

@xin-li Happy to share! I see that you are already setting your book up in this kind of storyboard format.

What I try to do these days is be very clear what the intention of each spread is. What is happening at this point in the story? And how do I want the viewer to feel as they make the page turn and experience the spread? I try to boil it down to one or two "keywords". These keywords go a long way toward suggesting composition, camera placement, character pose, value structure and color choices.

And I've found it's MUCH easier to dissect other illustrator's work first. Then apply that way of thinking to my own books.

I hope you give it a try with your favorite books. But don't overlook the value of doing this to books you hate. Especially if they are super popular. It may well give you an insight into why that "terrible" book is doing so well!

RG Spaulding

@davidhohn Thank you so much for this break down of the process. Really helps!

xin li

@theprairiefox thanks for the write-up and sharing your process.

Regarding to no.5
I found it very interesting that you review the text-only version with readers/editors. I am wondering if it matters with the type of stories? The story I am working on right now is very much depending on the illustrations to carry out the drama of the story. The size and placement of the characters and objects are essential for the story (it is hard to put these things in words, I think I have to thumbnail it out to make sense). I was thinking of waiting until I am in the rough sketch phase to have a reader/editor review.

I always wondered the wordless picture book "Sidewalk flowers" illustrated by Sydney Smith, and written by JonArno Lawson, what was the manuscript looked like? and how much did the author and illustrator collaborated in the process?

Regarding to no.6
I love an add-on character, especially for younger children, they are wonderful to make book reading fun, slow-down.

Regarding to no.8
Thanks for reminding me this. I also remember hearing Lee saying that at one of his lectures.

Regarding to no.10
Do you have a critique group? I found it hard to get feedback from editors in the process. My office is in a creative collective, and I can ask co-workers from the collective to take a look of my dummy - some of them work with illustration, but the majority of people work in either game or advertising.

I subscribed Storyteller Academy this month to go through a book dummy course with Arree Chung
One thing that made a lot of sense to me is what he called "to have the end product in mind from the beginning". He encourages students to make the physical dummies the same size as the final book, to get the feel of the final product even in the early sketching stage. I will be doing this in my process. I thumbnail with pen and paper but do rough sketch digitally. So I will be printing out all rough sketches in real size, and glue them together to make my first real size dummy.

xin li

@KaraDaniel Thank you for sharing your process.
I know that Will talked about their process always starts with a finished manuscript (in that SVS class with little red riding hood). But I find it counter-intuitive since illustration is telling half of the story, it is hard to leave it out in the beginning. I always have a hard time understanding how a picture book is done without author and illustrator working closely. I guess the only way for me to get it is to work on a picture book that is written by someone else. :-).

xin li

@davidhohn thank you for the study tip :-). I need to visit the library to dig up a couple of terrible and popular books :smiling_face_with_open_mouth_closed_eyes:. I have never thought of study them in such a way.

I will always remember your lecture on emotional keywords. That was one of the best things I learned in 2019

KaraDaniel

@xin-li oh I definitely think a lot of writer/illustrators work on their manuscripts and illustration simultaneously and that works for a lot of people. I just like to have all my words first then use the pictures to enhance the story. (And I am in NO way a pro so I could be totally doing it wrong! Lol) Some books are only pictures, or just very few words. It depends on the book I guess. Seems like the way you are going about it so far is working out great.

Jeremy Ross

Hi @xin-li, this is a great question. I'm also interesting in seeing other's work process.

Here's an example of my process, followed by printing and stapling 8.5x11 sheets together to simulate the physical book. These were very loose and fun sketches, but gave me the freedom to build up the tempo.

Oh yeah, before I forget - I also did the same thing with my book trailer (but in traditional pencil) - which I animated and created the music track. This is also shown below. I can send you a link to the trailer if you're interested in seeing how it came out.

Thanks!

Jeremy Ross

Thanks @davidhohn! I love Beekle and pretty much all of Dan's work! So much so that I tried my hand at making the book cover of Dude in my copy covers for practice forum post.

Thanks for sharing the process, very helpful!

Jeremy

jbleau

@davidhohn Very nice to see this example!!! Thanks for posting...I think the value study shapes are a great way to go...

Coley

@davidhohn and anyone else, I actually listened just yesterday to this podcast where Dan Santat discusses some of his characters including Beekle. In the beginning they play an audio clip of him winning the Caldecott for it. Which was fun. Here's the link for anyone interested https://www.breaker.audio/the-picturebooking-podcast-creating-publishing-and-marketing/e/5955851

davidhohn

@Jeremy-Ross I saw that post. Master copies like that are always useful!

theprairiefox

@xin-li said in Share your book dummy process?:

have the end product in mind

I would agree with having the end product in mind from the beginning. I self-published a book by myself and the number of compromises and changes required because I didn't think about the end product was very high.

I am glad I had done the exercise of fully completing a book before really getting into illustration/writing full time. It really taught me about the things I didn't know and the lessons mean a lot more when you have practical knowledge of doing stuff the wrong way can get you into trouble.

On no. 5, my first editors (I use that term loosely) are a couple of people who can easily image into the images. I decided to do this as an extension of the process @Lee-White and @davidhohn gave us for illustrating. Take baby steps, provide options, choose the best one before moving to the next step. 50 Thumbnails -> 8 - Value Thumbnails -> 3 - Small Sketches -> 1 - Refined Sketch -> 1 - Final Picture. I would struggle to remove a character from my story if I had already done character design for them and got to know them. If they are just in the text I am a little less attached.

I did struggle a little bit with my more recent manuscript as there are pages in the dummy without any words (story through illustration). I solved that by creating simple text descriptions of the feelings and goals of the illustrations on those pages. This allowed the editor to follow along though I did learn during that process to be clearer in those descriptions.

On no. 10, I currently don't have a good critique group. I have a few editors/readers I will be using for this initially. Luckily, I have a family that is into literature and they have no qualms about giving me their opinion! I will use them for now, until I can establish a more formal group for this stage. One thing to note about feedback at this stage is the need for knowing the provider of the feedback and filtering the feedback through that lens.

xin li

@Jeremy-Ross looks really fun. Is the book you are working on a square book? I am curious if your thumbnails are idea sketches or the actual page spreads.

Yeah. Would love to see your book trailer