A little disturbed

Kat

Just to add one more voice my preference on how the contests are held is the critique format rather than voting. It’s lots of fun to watch the voting, but as a student I learn MUCH more from the critiques, even if my piece isn’t included.

Maybe a combination-critiques, then participants vote on the winner.

Regardless, this is still a great platform to connect and learn, and I appreciate the work that SVS does to keep the forums and challenges going for us all.

frankiiij

@Ryan-Ehr Respect. Thank you for your positivity and humility. It was a concern of mine that me voicing my opinion would be a spring board of negativity, which is not my intention. I just believe that accountability should not be something that is unreachable. I do not want to force the judges to take a specific piece or be punish. I am simply looking to plead for more structure and more guidance. Thank you for your time and patience. Much love. One!

Rachel Horne

HI everyone - this is a really interesting discussion! I thought I'd add my two pennies worth even though everyone's already made so many good points that I'm just going to repeat! I think to improve and grow as an artist you have to distance yourself a little from the work you produce and be prepared to hear negative feedback - you can choose to take or leave that feedback but it's important to remember where it's coming from and I think everyone here agrees that Will, Lee and Jake are very well placed to give constructive criticism. At the end of the day, if the work is technically solid then surely the rest is down to personal taste and you can't do anything about that. I'm personally really grateful for the time and energy all the people behind the scenes put into SVS and I think the critiques are a great way to grow.

Lucky Platt

Echoing what's been said already in this great thread, I think the 'prompt' and the deadline (for those of us who are motivated by deadlines, for me they're essential!) are just catalysts - the possibilities are always wide open and the reward is the work. I also think it's really hard to give constructive feedback rapid-fire, and I felt Will and Aaron were really under pressure in that respect last night, and seemed to express a lot of 'gut feeling' which they might have refined with more time. Still I appreciated seeing all the wonderful work (big WOW!) and the generous time and effort on the part of the judges, and all the comments from participants.

It could be and probably should be its own thread, but @TessaW I'm with you on the desire for SVS to present more diverse voices - SVS instructors, featured artists, shout outs on the podcast, referenced artists and so on are overwhelmingly white guys. Sometimes when I'm listening to the podcasts I find myself laughing/shouting out 'oh come on, that is such a dude's experience!!'...or similar sentiment. Obviously we all have to be ourselves and I'm hugely appreciative of the podcasts for being genuine and candid. In fact the podcasts have been an invaluable resource and lifeline for me, accompanying me through my first book process last year. Still, looking at all the good that SVS offers - educational platform, resource, place for community-building - I do miss, want, and honestly at some point will lose interest without hearing more from and about creators who are not white guys. Let's continue talking about this!

frankiiij

@hannahmarie Respect! Thank you for your kind words and insight. What my initial comment doesn’t speak on is how wonderful the community is. It doesn’t speak on the extra that @Will-Terry, @Lee-White, or @Jake-Parker provide for the students here. It also doesn’t speak on the awesome amount of content from the courses or the behind the scenes people that make this a awesome place to learn the craft. Being new to the site, I would like you to understand that my frustration is on something specific and i hope this doesn’t cloud anyone’s judgement on matters outside of this context.

Thank you for your positively and patience. Much love. One!

frankiiij

@Kat Respect! Thank you for your insight as well. I am in total agreement. I too appreciate the work that SVS doers to keep the forums and challenges going. I too learn a lot from all the critiques. Which is why I think I get frustrated when I hear mixed messages that pass some and hold back others.

Thank you for your time and patience. Much Love. ONE!

frankiiij

@Rachel-Horne Respect! Thank you for you insight. I agree that there is a level of distancing and ability to hear negative feedback that artist need to have. Personally the feedback is what I am searching for. In the context with the thread, the frustration lies with the miscommunication and or disconnect with the the prompt to the judging. I do not question their ability or professionalism.

My question would be does their credibility and or professionalism omit them from critiques of their own contest and judging methods?

Much love. ONE!

frankiiij

@Lucky-Platt Respect. Thank you for your insight and inspiration. I too am appreciative for this site and for the podcast. I hope that is not questioned in my frustration. As a leader in other aspects of life I just don’t think leaders should be above communication with the community. I also don’t believe in using my credibility or experience to deflect someone’s concerns with my process. As a leader I do not believe in deflecting someone’s concerns with their inabilities to avoid accountability of my mistakes. In addition, as much as i love this site and the podcast I do not believe in deflecting my voice in fear of losing the good aspects of svs. I believe in a healthy community communication can enhance and create more of the good, in this case, the svs community. Hope this makes sense. I also hope this doesn’t sound abbrasive.

Much love. ONE!

Braxton

@Ryan-Ehr Just wanted to give you a shout-out that yours was probably my favorite piece this month, and my money was on you being one of the winners.

Coley

@Braxton @Ryan-Ehr samsies that’s a fantastic piece. Still broken hearted it didn’t get in Lol

frankiiij

@Braxton Co-sign

JennyJones

Just as a point of clarification... my frustration is not about not winning contests. It is more about desiring feedback in hopes of improvement.

The recent critique format is a lot more competition oriented and much less than they used to be about advice for improvement. The current criticism is purposefully short to be able to fit all of the entries chosen. They have been “ say one thing about...this round and one thing the next”. The previous format included draw overs and a solid critique of each of the selected pieces. There were fewer pieces chosen, but those pieces got a thorough going over. That was always helpful to me. I learned a great deal from the draw overs no matter the image.

I realize I am in the minority for not preferring the current format. I remember a poll when the format first began that had a super high approval rating and a really minuscule disapproval percentage. I want to say it was like 2%“no.” I would love to see a few draw over critiques or significant feedback on anyone’s work. It would not matter if it was related to a contest or not.

Anyway...that’s my 2 cents. Again, not trying to be a “hater” because I am truly not. I love SVS and the forums. I value Will, Jake, and Lee’s opinions as well as those given by my fellow artists. When I had the choice to make about school, I chose from fear and got a useless degree. But now I’m choosing my passion without the ability to GO back to school. Trying to learn, level up, and make up for 20 years of lost time.

@JennyJones
I didn't think that you were negative at all, and I can say that I agree with not only everything you said here, but also the way you said it.

This format doesn't suit me either, and I think that's ok. I've made it a point since the poll you mention (as part of the minuscule disapproval percentage) to go back to the old critiques more often than even concerning myself with attending the current live critiques, because those are so helpful to me even to rewatch. We all have to acknowledge our needs to move forward. I would prefer if they chose the two winners and talked about them in depth, a half hour for each. In one of the old critiques, Lee White said that at first when he looked at the image (a really well done image of one of the three little pigs in a living room with the shadow of a wolf encroaching) it seemed like it was fine, but as he really dug in and studied it, it became clear what wasn't working. He had so many interesting changes that made the image function better! so it wasn't about this split-second impression of the image that the contest is now. I am all for the arbitrary choice for a winner, and no hints at what made them win! I mean, I can definitely see the value in producing an image that immediately gets noticed and showing which ones have that effect and which don't, but as a student I am trying to figure out the functional aspect of images for picture books specifically, so when I produce an image for the contest it's usually meant to be part of a series. I can't just make images that catch an AD's eye and then not be able to produce functional images.

I know I can't neglect doing classwork to get the contest entry done so if i'm going to continue entering I have to make sure it's not taking over. But I know I need to participate in something regularly, so most of the time it will probably be the svs contest.

As far as other contests, I am not aware of them so much yet, but if I really wanted to get into this contest or any contest more to really try to win, I think I would try acting as a judge and choose 16 to see what it's like. My initial criteria would probably be that split second answer to whether I 'like' the image. And I was always taught that that is no basis whatsoever for a critique. In the graphic design program, if you said you liked someone's work in a critique you had to back up and really think it through better. So yeah my conclusion about this contest has been like yours, where i'm not worried so much about winning or losing, but just how it fits into my education, something I'm in complete control of right now and need to direct on my own.

JennyJones

@carolinebautista Well said. I agree with your views 100%. I have often gone back to those older critiques and rewatched. I particularly loved the one you mentioned with the 3 Little Pigs for the same reasons you mentioned. Sending encouragement as you are leveling up. Keep up the good efforts.

Heather Boyd

Hey -so lots of people have replied so I'll keep mine short (I hope). Disturbing is a strong word- I would have used concerned or puzzled -because sometimes I am puzzled. Like recently for the robot contest skill got in because, it was amazing! but I didn't read the concept quickly or at all until it was explained. And there is definitely a super focus on concept and it gets repeated constantly as it should so I was puzzled why it got in when even the judges didn't know what was happening. Other times I don't read concepts well or even quickly but the judges do, so then I am puzzled again.

For this past isolation I was surprised Lee wasn't taking part because it was his baby lols and that positive perspective he encouraged would have helped bring some balance. But having a new face judge was cool.

I appreciated getting feedback but it was a bit hard to take because I felt the rest of my parts got overlooked and the "water" element which I agree was not clear (ha ha in my head it was) distracted away from the rest (which I worked really hard to work out). I tried to rework it after the feedback -but it didn't work out and I ended messing it up. So feedback was still good but I would have also liked a positive -but totally understand lack of time and so many contestants.

Ryan Ehr

I agree that I miss the draw-overs from earlier contests. I wasn't a member, but watching those critiques were more useful and they become a more helpful curriculum to future students. Maybe the judges pick 2 top pieces each month to go deeper. Then pick 2 pieces from folks much earlier on the journey (a ways away from professional work) with a lot more that could be improved. Even if they critique someone with a disimilar skill set, you learn a lot that way.

@Ryan-Ehr I admit that although I don't mind the idea of voting, the experience of that format got me thinking that for later students the discussion of voting during the critiques would end up a little bit distracting. I'd already been listing to so many of the old critiques by then that I couldn't help thinking of it that way.

One thing I want to say is that if you think about this contest and the way it was set up for May 2020, it was a prompt that made a bunch of artists mostly in isolation themselves collectively think about an important idea everyone in the world was and still is grappling with. So for me, most of its value is as a visible and collective effort. I am still in isolation and putting my work up in the thread with so many different takes on the word has been one of my favorite parts of the quarantine. So as long as we can show each other our entries, I am happy to participate whenever I can and really hope they continue, regardless of the format of the live sessions.

xin li

@Ryan-Ehr you defintely got the audience award. Your piece is my favorite too. It describe what we just been through all together for the last 3 months so well - social distancing (in the country I live now, the rule was 2 meters distance in public, so the socializing scene is pretty much what your pengiuns do, and it made me feel pretty isolated emotionally). Perhaps if the prompt was "social distancing", you would be the winner of the month . But again, for the last 3 months, I think of "social distancing" "and isolation" as more or less synonyms.

Like many others here, I do have a possitive assication with the word "isolation" personally as well, and the top 16 pieces this time was very different from what I would have picked. But I also understand how people have very different association with words.

@dafoota I understand your frustration. For me the monthly contest has been a way of creating new portfolio pieces, or even just generate ideas for portfolio pieces. I have a piece I made from one of the last year's contest, I loved the illustration when I made it, and it was not picked to be the top 16 (I was dissapointed of course). I still love the concept of the piece this year, so I did a re-paint (same concept, better tehnique, and better character design), and used it in my portfolio. I think one super difficult thing for us artists in our earliy career is to filter out what critique is relavant to me, and what is not. If there is something in your piece you love, hold on to it.

Rachel Horne

@dafoota well said

gavpartridge

@StudioLooong Very well said! I thought there were several pieces this month that if you had to choose one word to sum them up, it would have been 'content' or 'peaceful' or even 'fun', but definately not isolation. Isolation can have positive outcomes, but on face value it is not a positive thing.