@korilynneillo I've done a good amount of graphic contract design work like this and the main problem you're going to face is just not knowing how long the project will take. I've been doing it for over 10 years and I can tell pretty quickly how long something will take give or take about an hour.

Graphic design work like this is usually work for hire, so you're producing artwork that the client owns once you're done with it, so it's just hours for dollars.

What you're describing isn't completely clear because "promo images, fancy headers, etc" could be 2 or 15 images so you need specifics. What you might do is go to several kickstarter campaigns that have funded and just list out the number of assets would be included in a project as an example if they aren't 100% sure.

The way I've structured these is it's a project fee so they can control their budget, but it's based on a number hours and I'm very clear about that, so if the needs begin exceeding the original requirements (also called scope creep), you build into the contract that a revised contract will need to be signed before the additional changes can be made. Or they just say "that's OK lets stick with the original amount". Either answer is fine because you aren't getting taken advantage of or they simply pay you more for the additional work.

I'd charge between $75 and $100 an hour, calculate the hours then multiple that by 1.5. You always want to build padding in for difficult clients and OCD clients that take up a lot of time in project management. So, let's say you quote the project for a banner, info graphic, email template, facebook cover, 5 custom assets and 10 headers you know you can tackle that in 15 hours from concept to final revisions, you'd multiply that by 1.5 and quote them 22.5 hours at say $85 an hour for a total project cost of about $1900.

Make sure you include revisions so they know they will be taken care of. With the 1.5 multiplier in there, I can give them extras when I know I'm ahead of schedule or decide to stick to the original contract because they are burning time being difficult to work with. Either way I can deliver what they want and feel like I was paid fairly or I can get them outstanding service because they are being super easy to work with.

You don't want to work for clients that think this is outrageous. Any professional that is serious about their project is expecting something like this or a company that is going to quadruple that cost just for shits and giggles to see if someone accepts the bid. And any professional that knows what these services really cost and values good service at an honest rate will think highly of you for offering a straight forward and honest proposal.

Follow the final invoice up with a hand written thank you note and a $5 bottle of wine at Christmas and you've got a client for life.

I love this thread! It has resonated with so many people, and it seems obvious this is common, key problems that comes up with us artists as a normal part of the creation process. It's comforting to see so many also struggle with it even those at top tier skill level, and it's especially helpful to hear all of your own tips and tricks of what helps you deal with this. My takeaway is that we all struggle with this at some point (or constantly) but there are ways to keep creating despite of it.

@chrisaakins said in How much to charge for 1st illustration?:

@ArtofAleksey they didn’t have a set amount in mind. I looked online and 25 an hour is a good flat rate for someone just starting out.

Personally instead of $25 I'd ask for $50 and give them a cap on how much it could be. You might end up working for $25 an hour in the end because it might take you longer than a pro, but it would help set a rate you'd be happy about if they asked for more work and you don't keep asking for more money feeling like you're getting screwed and trying to be nice.

That or a nice couch 😛

@Frost-Drive B,C,F
B- perspective cool
C- a lot of your elements
F- really feel for her

This is great! Thank you for sharing 💛

@jdubz When Will read what you said I had to come back and read it myself. Yes! I love this. And, I completely agree. Part of the reason I want to do art is because I love it. Part is to prove to my teacher who believed in me that I could believe in me too. (Part is to remind myself that the teacher who told me I wasn't "worth his time" doesn't get to tell me who I am.) And, a HUGE part of pursuing the dream is for when I tell my kids to work hard for what they want in life. I want to say, "like mama did, " because anything else feels hypocritical.

This also happens to be my focus of the month!

Found this to be extremely helpful: https://www.howtodrawcomics.net/how-to-draw-facial-expressions

@sarahlash I'm not concerned about my current followers seeing my work, just fresh eye ones. Thank you though and everyone else.

@Zach-Roush & @xin-li I'm so happy I was able to share. Glad you enjoyed!

I'm making my first portfolio piece, and I'm doing a space setting!! Here's some thumbnails I came up with!

alt text

Which one do you think would work best in a portfolio? (I may post updates as I make the final one too!)

I also thought it'd be really cool to give the astronaut a sword. But is that innapropriate for kids illustration? That would be a good 3 point perspective podcast topic, what's appropriate, what's not. Where's that line excatly, because I have no idea.

I've had a lot of odd jobs over the past decade but what I ended up sticking with is my career in the maritime industry. I started about three years ago. I love the water and I get to travel to new places and ports. The ocean, marine life, and maritime culture are endless inspirations for my work. It's pretty easy to find time for projects, too. When my watch ends, I just find a place to park it - either in the common areas of the ship or my stateroom, and draw for a few hours before getting some sleep.

It was a ton of hard work and low pay in the beginning but I recently arrived at a point where I have more stability (one ship in one port) and that's allowed me to focus more on my illustration studies.

Before this I lived in NYC and worked in retail, delivery, print production, etc.. all of those jobs and my commute in and out of the city, drained me so much.. A very good friend of mine once said, you have to find a way of easing the pressure so you have time to create. I think it's different for everyone, but where I am now works well for me.

@Coreyartus Wow those are some really cool projecsts, thanks for showing me those!!! That's pretty much exactly what I was meaning about really beautiful pixel art!!

It sparked a ton of ideas for me too.

I also see your point!! You're pretty right that in order for pixel art to not be a little jarring, the story would have to be very fitting for it!! So if I ever wanted to illustrate a book in pixel art style, I should wait till' I can write a story myself.

@jmoglesby yeah. But maybe we’re all also wrong and 20-25 hours a week is the capacity you have to create art? And figuring out how to create art more efficiently is the way to go for you?

Hi all.
I was trying to write and illustrate a book about a boy with cerebral palsy as a super hero. It proves too much for me so, I am passing along the idea. It wouldn't have to be a super hero-just a story with a character that has cerebral palsy. My friend's grandson has CP. She asked if I had ever thought about writing a book about a boy with CP. He's adorable and I really wanted to do it! I've played with some illustrations and ideas for a story but it is just beyond my current abilities. So, I thought I'd just put it out there for someone else in case they felt the desire. Something that fits the diversity bill. Take care and have a wonderful day!

@korilynneillo great information! Thanx for sharing. 😃

@korilynneillo thanks so much! 🙂 I found you on Instagram, you have great work.

Scanners are so expensive! I suggest looking on ebay/facebook marketplace/gumtree/any local sites to see what you can find. I was incredibly lucky when looking to buy a scanner. My dad found an old Epson GT 20000 A3 scanner for sale for a whopping £30 on a local buy and sell site. The guy hadn't plugged it in so didn't guarantee it worked but for £30 I took the risk and it works perfectly. Couldn't believe my luck lol, when I look online a second hand version of this scanner is £650+

I did master studies of Lita Judge who uses pencil and watercolor in a lot of her work. She's not as well known but has published numerous books and copying her has helped loosen me up (though I still revert because I don't trust my own judgment.) Here's an image search for some of her work. Lita Judge

@Pamela-Fraley said in What is "kids book style" and what isn't? What's the definition:

back fro

Oh yeah!! Thanks Pamela!! I have a baby sister and nephews so I can get some target audience feedback!

I also looked up Richard Scary and got a HUUGE nostalgia blast!! I COMPLETELY forgot about that cartoon series but I watched it all the time as a kid, and it was one of the only kids things I actually liked. So, maybe I should take some notes from his work!!

Hi, everyone! @Braden-Hallett asked me the same question about 2 weeks ago but I haven't got the chance to reply back. Now that I'm here, I'm going to share my experience with Advocate Art. Before I get started, I'd like to say that everything I'll be sharing here is based on my own experience. Other artists might have a different time with Advocate. This is what just I've experienced so far.

Regarding how I've been treated, I'd say it's been really good. My agent has been really accommodating to my questions and queries. She's been really patient with me. They regularly brief us on the current trends of the industry and encourage us to make new pieces based on their list. My agent having an illustration background, gladly provides valuable critique on my work as well.

Now as for @Kevin-Longueil 's question about the top artists getting the first pick and the lower artists getting the scraps, I'd say it's really true. It might sound unfair at first but looking at it from a business stand point, it's actually logical as @NessIllustration pointed out. Top artists have been in the industry longer. They most likely have a decent following that'll help boost sales. They also have a proven record that'll make them less of a liability for clients compared to newbies. it's a bit frustrating when you're just starting out. Luckily though, it's not permanent. Once you've proven yourself, things do get better or so I've heard. 😅 well, I hope it does.

As for me, I'm still on the proving myself stage. I signed with Advocate around September 2019. I received a few queries starting a few weeks after that but I didn't land any projects. It's not really the agency's fault. There could be a variety of reasons why that is so ranging from my style just not clicking with the client to another illustrator just being better than me.

Anyhow, It was around January when I finally got my first illustration project. I was for a 16 page textbook for an educational publisher. I had a few hiccups on this project but I'll spill the tea on that one some other time. I got a second project last February from Harper Collins for another 16-page text book. This one was a better experience than the first. Needing only 8 illustrations plus cover, textbooks are low risk projects great for new illustrators like me but the quick turnarounds are what gets you. After the revisions, we completed both projects around last month. I received another book inquiry after that but I'm still waiting for news. There was no way I would've found these jobs on my own so I'm still thankful.

I'm currently keeping myself busy by finishing up a project from a self-publishing author that I picked up last year. We're on the final stages. I'm also trying to think of ways to get myself out my low stats. I think I'll try @NessIllustration 's advice of allowing my agent to manage the projects I found for myself. A publisher I worked with a few years back contacted me. I think I'll refer them to my agent.

Anyway, to wrap it up. Advocate treated me nicely, they have a lot of established artists so be prepared to work with small projects at first, but things can improve if you show them you're reliable. I hope this helps.